Hartke HA5500

[x-pro]

...This is a very difficult amp to service for a non-professional.

Do not connect it!
First check the +B and -B points for a short circuit to the common wire (you can connect to the amplifier chassis). Capacitors C401 and C402 should be discharged (you can use a 220V lamp directly between the +B and -B points to discharge them).
If everything is OK, check all output transistors (Q313-Q320) and pre-output transistors (Q309, 310). Of course, for example, Q313,315,317,319 are in parallel, so if there is a short between collector and emitter, you will have to unsolder them one by one and check each one. Also check the transistors in the lower arm.

[Smokerx]

At least Q309 and Q314 are blown again. Right back to square 1 of what blows. I guess 300 watt limiter did not spare them. But did spare the fuse.
Might try it again with the 60 watt, with 309 and 314 replaced just to see if theyre protected as I have plenty of spares now. Im short to ground on the B+ with the amp driver out measuring from the CN501 connector

Schematic is wrong. D418 is D401 KBU1004 on my amp and tests good.

According to schematic B+ looks it has a path to ground through Con 501on the ground between C322 and C402

Connector CN502 isnt even on the schematic, it acts like the power supply for B+ B- just shoots to point B+ B- into dead space.

Yeah Im getting a 140 Volts over B+ B- . 2 of the same caps in series have double the voltage rating so 200 voltages. Everything Dim bulbs until you plug in the amp driver board.

The Transformer I cant track down for voltages ratings on the parts number, to determine if the voltage its sending is too high...It makes sense that transistors act like a dimmer switch so, it receiving 140 volts then stepping that down across the driver to 90 or whatever that guys schematic sees it stepping down to and where I will research more.

Where I think it goes short is the ground between C302 and C402. As soon as that ground is attached, the glow bulb glows bright and the case fan doesnt spin. Im convinced the Amp driver board just completes that short circuit as a hot wire. But I'd have to hot wire whatever source wire off Con 501 to ground that sends it there to prove it.

For all I know its the 6 pin on Con501 marked AC that takes all of the power off Con105 and con104 and dumps into that ground hence why the case fan wont run when Con501 is plugged in. D309 looks good. then the schematic just says that wire is used to shoot A/C off into space. So were good there.

I took the preamp/power supply board out. to check for any long cap legs that might be shorting/ short solder jobs or signs or rework. Theres nothing obvious. I would say the fan is running off a temp sensor and is not being robbed for its volts, but the LED light for the power button wont even come on with CN501 plugged in.

I guess I will continue to test components on the driver board. For a short.

[g1]

Schematic is wrong. D418 is D401 KBU1004 on my amp and tests good.

According to schematic B+ looks it has a path to ground through Con 501on the ground between C322 and C402

Connector CN502 isnt even on the schematic, it acts like the power supply for B+ B- just shoots to point B+ B- into dead space.

There are several versions of this amp and several schematics. Sounds like you do not have the correct one for your unit.

[Smokerx]

its definitely the right schematic. Im looking at a Hartke 5000 that fried in the same way. they took the 5500 and 10000 design and made the driver support 250 watts each on the 5000. But it fries the driver the exact same way. Id say when your amps are all frying in the exact same way..I dunno bro. Looking to get to the bottom of this I guess. I wouldnt be calling Hollywood Hartke. These are samsons amps.

I'll be back to square one testing everything on my driver board, so wont be posting anything useful for the foreseeable future.

Ive got a fried Q315 I guess Q309 took it out. Waiting for CHYNA to send more transistors.

[The Dude]

Waiting for CHYNA to send more transistors.......

Are you buying Chinese fakes? If so, that could be part of the problem.

[Smokerx]

Yeah, chinese fakes. China is incapable of manufacturer of transistor. Its a chinese amp, every transistor on earth is now a "Chinese Fake" Not really tho. What was it? like 20 years ago? It was Japanese Ram Korean Ram and Chinese ram? All worked but the solder on the chinese stuff looked dodgy. Except its at least 20 years later from that benchmark. Maybe their quality control is iffy comparative but I doubt it. The idea China cant manufacture is old and tired. Thats why I said dont call Hollywood Hartke.

Its probably me. Because Im blasting components with wall voltage and 300 watt current limiters on old tired components that got stressed. Hopefully, otherwise Im missing something. Its possible China is selling me a whole bunch of fakes. I can only test them on a multimeter.

I like to gamble and I usually win but when I lose I dont give up. This 1 is a tuff nut to crack because its pushing and pulling or something.

[The Dude]

......The idea China cant manufacture is old and tired......

Chinese counterfeit/fake parts is still a thing and well documented, even here on this site. I'm not trying to start an argument, but you could easily be chasing your tail over defective parts. I won't belabor the subject. It's your project. Do as you wish.

[g1]

Yes, there are real and fake Chinese transistors. The real ones come through legitimate electronics parts suppliers that we deal with regularly like mouser, digikey, etc.
The fake ones are often obsolete parts at amazing prices considering they are obsolete. They are actually 'real' transistors labelled wrong, so they don't meet the spec., (often the power rating).
The fakes do not come through the legit electronic parts suppliers. You find them on amazon, ebay, etc. They used to all ship direct from China which made them easier to avoid, but now they got have warehouses in North America warehousing them.
We see it all the time here. It's not like we're harping about something that happened 20 years ago. It's very hard to find legit sources of obsolete parts.

[x-pro]

Unsolder (remove) all transistors Q313-Q320.
Check and replace Q309 and Q310 if necessary. Temporarily, solder two 2 W resistors of 100 ohms each to the emitter of these transistors. Connect the common point of these resistors to the left terminal of resistor R334. R321 remains in place.
Do not apply a signal. Do not connect a load. Turn the amplifier on through a 60W lamp. The +B and -B power supply is checked against a common wire. This is pin 1 of the CON501 connector. Thus, the voltmeter should show the voltage value between (+B and CON501/pin 1) and between (-B and CON501/pin 1).
Next. Check the DC voltage on the right pin of R334 relative to CON501/pin 1.
It should be around zero.
If everything is in order, only 2 ! new transistors Q313, Q314 should be installed on the switched off amplifier with discharged capacitors (C401 C402) according to their position designations. R324, R325 must be in good condition like all other parts.

[Smokerx]

Its been a minute so I thought I'd update. Im still waiting for Transistors to come in. I got a HA5000 they said works but it doesnt. Its a bi amp and 1 of the driver boards. is bad in the exact same way. Blowing driver transistors and burnt up around R319. This time That R319 resistor is completely cooked. its the same amp just bi amped with different power ratings across the amp driver board. EXCEPT. It passed the 60 watt current limit test. 1 channel will power up and it sounds heavily muted like bad filter caps sending trash power. without a scope I dont know for sure.

So. I got Genuine Nishikons filter caps from Digikey this time and really scoped out the ratings on aliexpress for replacement transistors. They came in obviously used e-waste stream but they tested good and Im certain they are genuine and not relabels. They tested with the same specs. as the working ones across the rail on the 5000 amp. AN ASIDE: Hartke is a name wrapping on a SAMSON amp so not sure if china was actually sourcing Japanese parts in the first place.

I wont be powering the 5000 amp without replacing the filter caps. Considering I consider it a miracle if it doesnt blow in the exact same way if power is applied. As Ive powered the 5500 on 5 times now and it just keeps blowing that board. So hoping its solved by applying clean not dirty power out of those filter caps.

Prob. going to do the 5000 this way before I move forward on the 5500. But theres 2 variables being solved simultaneously. Hopefully not fugazi parts and Filter caps.

After failing this many times Im just not going to go forward unless I really peep your ratings on transistors and determine the 5 star ratings, genuine parts is accurate.

Im not going to put it on China. These amps just blow up like that for whatever reason nobody knows...Evidentally ALL OF THEM.

If I had to guess with out doing electronics engineering id say yo those big caps are expensive doe.

I also agree im not going to war over chinese parts that dont work in a chinese amp. Im really going to scrutinize what I source moving forward.

[Smokerx]

Thanks X pro. I'll be doing this after I get a working Q319 in the mail. They seem to float thru that part of the world sometimes, so it takes more than a minute for arrival. I see no sense in testing with known bad parts on the board. As I fear powering it up...oop I just realized I can do this with Q319 uninstalled.

[x-pro]

If everything is in order, only 2 ! new transistors Q313, Q314 should be installed on the switched off amplifier with discharged capacitors (C401 C402) according to their position designations. R324, R325 must be in good condition like all other parts.

Just keep in mind, these connections are temporary. It is not advisable to connect a real load.
All this is to repair and adjust the amplifier. The introduced elements (resistors) should be excluded after tuning.

[Smokerx]

https://www.diyaudio.com/archive/blo...mment3978.html

I think this an interesting read for Chinese fakes. It details a bad experience with a fake under a good experience with "fakes". The transistor farthest to the right are the internals of the published package specs (old familiar package design)

Heres a potential fake I ordered from uncertain sources, replaced, blew up and cracked open. The font size for MJL 21193 is much bigger. what I see inside looks like complete BS. but I think that its possible this is 2 laminated heat sinks and the transistor trace is laminated and stuck to the plastic shroud, on closer inspection of broken plastic pieces. Its definitely something different to the destruction pics in the destruction thread. So suspect.. Looking closer at the other threads pics. It looks like thats whats going on is hes posting pics. of the plastic shrouds, not the heat sinks...Old design should have the transistor traces stuck on the heatsinks, not laminated into the plastic shrouds.

Conclusion: I dont think this blew because its fugazi.

"All your parts blew because theyre fugazi..Hartke #1!"

Whatever blew this 1 up took out the next 1 in line. So continuing to power it up seems to take out more and more transistors, as whatever problem gets passed down the board to the next tired component, In my opinion.

[x-pro]

Make a rule. DO NOT buy electronic components from dubious sellers!
Especially if you need the unit for commercial use.

It's like buying a safety rope for mountain climbers on Aliexpress. There are no bad reviews there.

[Smokerx]

I got the HA5000 Up and working but not the HA5500. The HA5000 I got lucky with. just the R319 resistor and a couple of the transistors on the Q314 Q313 rails. I dont think it was the power supply caps. I think it was a tube that blew and took stuff out, as it came with a blown tube inside. I hooked the 60 watt limiter bulb up, measured voltage going from B+ B- across to the two amp driver boards, to make sure it was the same. Plugged up the repaired driver board and heard 2 relay clicks instead of just 1. The limiter bulb was still glowing dim. So tried to play it with the limiter bulb attached and it played. Disconnected the limiter bulb and nothing notable happened, so its repaired. Still trying to fix the HA5500.

But now Im guessing I have fugazi transistors in my parts stockpile and the HA5500 issue is localized to the amp driver board, Since the issue seems to be related. Blown up around the same area. Came in with the tube out and a note about the amp blew up the tube, blows fuses.

Having Multiple Hartke amps like this sounds like im the repairman. Im not. I bought 2 broken Hartke's. After taking forever to fix the HA5500 I bought another 1 that came broken. I dont think the seller had the ability to test if it was a working amp. 2 Broken, 1 working Im up bigly compared to purchasing a used working amp. Even with the cost of the parts factored. And got the XP bonus.