high cut filter before preamp section help needed

[ballynally]

I bought a Traynor DH-15 'dark horse'. The highs seem overbearing, even when i turn it way down. I feel it needs to cut out the frequencies above..em..6 khz(or so) Normally i would look at the schematic, find the treble cap and change the value, but..this amp has 2 EQ sections. I could get 2 resistors of a different value. Then it got me thinking, how about a high cut filter before the preamp section, on the input itself perhaps, or on the pots (i have Gain and Master) anyone?
Oh i just recollected, there is also a 'pure' setting that bypasses the tone stack. Still has too many highs.

[Chuck H]

Are you using some kind of high priced low capacitance cable from the guitar to the amp? Are you using different speakers than was intended?

Other than these, here's a couple of things you can try. Buy a Sovtek 12ax7WA for V1. Very good tube but really dark sounding. In V1 it will change the overall tone significantly. If you still need more top end roll off solder a small value cap (4.7pf to 12pf 500V+ rating) between the plate and grid pins on the first triode gain stage. Experiment with the value to find the amount of attenuation you like.

[Steve Conner]

Also, are you under 30 with un-abused hearing?

Guitar amps are designed for and by middle-aged rock musicians with serious noise-induced hearing loss, which strikes above 4kHz first.

[ballynally]

I'm 47. I'm using power cable. I did change the stock Sovtek 12AX7WA (!) into a 5751 which improved the sound. I'm using a Celestion g12-75, somewhat brighter than the Greenback. No, it's the amp that's the problem. Might try your suggestion of adding a cap between plate and grid, although the input option still looks like the best option.

[Chuck H]

The cap IS an "input option". It behaves much like longer lengths of cable rolling off the brittle high end. Remember, your guitar is connected directly to that input grid, so it's a high end attenuator at the input.

Is this annoying top end present when playing clean or only under OD. And does it get worse the more you OD the amp? Do you have other amps. Try plugging one into the Traynor speaker just for kicks. Any problem?

FWIW the "tone" control on your guitar IS a high cut filter at the input. If the effect is too blunt and rolls off too much lower treble/upper mids you could change to a smaller capacitor on the tone pot.

[ballynally]

The cap IS an "input option". It behaves much like longer lengths of cable rolling off the brittle high end. Remember, your guitar is connected directly to that input grid, so it's a high end attenuator at the input.

Is this annoying top end present when playing clean or only under OD. And does it get worse the more you OD the amp? Do you have other amps. Try plugging one into the Traynor speaker just for kicks. Any problem?
FWIW the "tone" control on your guitar IS a high cut filter at the input. If the effect is too blunt and rolls off too much lower treble/upper mids you could change to a smaller capacitor on the tone pot.

Thanks for that.
Top end is present at all levels. I had another look at the schematic. Amps usually have a small pf cap along the treble as a highcut filter (around 20-80 pf).The only pf i could find in the early stages was a 450pf cab alongside the Gain, but that might be a treble bleed.I've tried this speaker as an extra cab with my vibroverb and yes, it is rather more aggressive in the highs, unlike the other 2 (eminence Copperhead and Ramrod), but compared to the Traynor exactly right. I got this particular speaker to clear up my hollow body ES295 with P90s, which it does. I've tried a Strat, and that didn't sound too good with the traynor.
It could still be a case of wrong speaker for this amp. The brownface vibroverb sounds different than a Deluxe Reverb, so maybe the Traynor cab with the Greenback IS the right combo, especially since the Traynor is not very loud for even a 15Watt amp (at runs 12Watts at the USA setting that i use). i am reluctant about the greenback, cause i need a good clean bottom end, but the amp never goes too loud to push it to crunch, so it might work

[Chuck H]

Eminence speakers tend to have a bit of a "boxy" sound IMHO. Even the models that are supposed to have a bright sound seem to roll off hard on treble. Maybe try a Wizard speaker in this amp. It's painfully efficient so you'll get the volume from it and the signature Eminence treble roll off may squelch any annoying top end. Since the Wizard is a popular speaker the worst that can happen is that you'll have to sell it on Ebay or something. Just thinking out loud...

[ballynally]

Eminence speakers tend to have a bit of a "boxy" sound IMHO. Even the models that are supposed to have a bright sound seem to roll off hard on treble. Maybe try a Wizard speaker in this amp. It's painfully efficient so you'll get the volume from it and the signature Eminence treble roll off may squelch any annoying top end. Since the Wizard is a popular speaker the worst that can happen is that you'll have to sell it on Ebay or something. Just thinking out loud...

Yes, thanks. will do.Is that also an Eminence? I was going for the Celestion just because of that 'boxy'low mid sound i wanted to avoid.But others might call that ' warm'.Hollow bodies have special needs, especially as i'm in the country-jazz fingerpicking Leon Redbone style of playing.I also play the bass part in my trio, so it needs to be tight. Was looking at the Eminence Cannabis Rex

[EFK]

Cannabis Rex will *definitely* cut treble and "thicken" the sound.

[ballynally]

hooked the amp up to a 10" copperhead. Already much better.So..after all that, yes, it's mainly the speaker, athough i do think this amp's highs are set too..em.. high. The celestion G12T- 70 doesn't work well with the Traynor. Apart from the Cannabis rex (hemp cone) was also looking at the Legend GB128, which is supposed to be a higher quality Celestion Greenback. oh dear oh dear, does it ever stop?

[Steve Conner]

It stops the day you resolve to quit worrying about gear and just play yer guitar.

Some speakers take several hours of high volume playing to break in and achieve the tone that the speaker designer intended. Any new speaker I've bought started out somewhat harsh and constipated, but as it broke in, the treble mellowed out and the bass got bigger and looser. So before you decide you hate a speaker, take it somewhere soundproof and give it a good blast, it will probably improve. I sometimes wonder, if people buy amps and only play them quietly at home, maybe the speakers never break in.

[ballynally]

It stops the day you resolve to quit worrying about gear and just play yer guitar.

Some speakers take several hours of high volume playing to break in and achieve the tone that the speaker designer intended. Any new speaker I've bought started out somewhat harsh and constipated, but as it broke in, the treble mellowed out and the bass got bigger and looser. So before you decide you hate a speaker, take it somewhere soundproof and give it a good blast, it will probably improve. I sometimes wonder, if people buy amps and only play them quietly at home, maybe the speakers never break in.

i know, it's a curse. I have to stop. However,can't stop worrying about it until it is RESOLVED. i've broken in the Celestion before i put it in. I usually connect it to a hifi system, put up the bass and a Bob Marley cd and crank it for a while. Don't think the Celestion will mellow over time.. I do so very much like the best possible sound. Fortunately, i do know what i'm after. Just finished watching a guy on the Eminence website talking about the Cannabis Rex, playing with his hollow body guitar (like i have). very interesting. For tonight's gig i'll bring my vibroverb and wait until the speaker issue has been resolved ie, between a cannabis rex and a legend GB128

[Chuck H]

Probably more for the "flea market" forum, but... If you decide on the Cannabis Rex I have one that's just just starting to melow when I changed it out for a brighter speaker. It's a great speaker and if I had a really bright amp that I just wanted to tame the treble on (but keep all the good stuff a speaker should do) it would be my first choice hands down. I'll sell it for a fair price since it just lives in a cardboard box right now.

[ballynally]

Probably more for the "flea market" forum, but... If you decide on the Cannabis Rex I have one that's just just starting to melow when I changed it out for a brighter speaker. It's a great speaker and if I had a really bright amp that I just wanted to tame the treble on (but keep all the good stuff a speaker should do) it would be my first choice hands down. I'll sell it for a fair price since it just lives in a cardboard box right now.

Thanks for the offer. I live in Ireland, though. The cost of transport and extra taxes will probably be too much to make the effort

[riz]

I would think a gig would be a great place to break in a speaker... In my experience my gear sounds "broken" half the time anyway!! Just meaning that stage sound is often less than ideal. Depends on the gig, and the music, I guess... I usually buy clean, used speakers, but recently "broke in" a new alnico in my champ. I remember when it "happened". I was wailing away and suddenly, the sound just "opened up"... It really is the best description I can provide. It wasn't like a specific moment, but by the time I turned the amp off, that speaker was sweet! I could hear it sweetening as I played. Cool! This was after a few days of sporadic playing. I now often use that amp at a much higher volume setting than I did previous to the speaker swap. I, too, am trying to "shut up and play my guitar" more! Getting back to guitar>cord>amp more than I have in a long time. Amazing what those little knobs on the guitar will do!!