Twin reverb new speakers

[potatofarmer]

The speakers in the amp are 8 ohm. They're wired in parallel, for a total 4 ohm load. If you're pushing the amp into overdrive, you want a pair of 8 ohm speakers that can handle at least 120W to 150W each.

Fender decided to get clever with the output jacks on these later Twins; you can run them with a four ohm load, an eight ohm load, or two four ohm loads. If you can find a four ohm speaker cabinet you can run it along with the internal speakers. If you can find an eight ohm cabinet, you can run it instead of the internal speakers.

I bring this up again because, while it is more stuff to carry, there is a perverse rule of speaker pricing where a brand new speaker with no cabinet will cost $100 each, but you can frequently find used guitar or bass cabinets, with speakers, for $100 total. This might only apply in the lower 48, I'm not sure.

It really sounds like with your playing style, a closed-back cabinet would be a better fit though. Shopping for replacement speakers is less fun when you NEED them because the old ones blew up.

[soundguruman]

ok thanks for the updated list..as for me I don't plan on running overdrive pedals, just chorus or a flanger and maybe a compressor..
I don't think our biggest music store would stock a lot of choices especially some of the more exotics you mention..
I need one that the screw holes would line up so I won't have to do any modifications..
so besides that I would look for as many as the ones on your list but last time I glanced at the speaker section in the store I didn't see a whole lot of selections..I may just have to buy one that can easily handle the wattage and I think it has to be 4 Ohms right??
I want to make sure of the correct ohm rating twins are all 4 ohm right??? no matter what year correct???


I let you know whats available before I buy and hopefully you can guide me to a good choice....


talk to you soon thanks.


popoahi

PS; diablo just posted me about the NEO so I will look for those too as they sound interesting being a JBL clone...

If I buy speaker, I buy a really good one.
I don't believe in buying cheap speakers, to me it's a waste.
I would rather spend more money on a speaker that sounds really good, and will last a really long time.

I like cast frame speakers. I like EVM.
EVM costs 200-300 each. But I would rather buy the good one, than any cheap one.
Even if I save up for 6 months to buy it, it's worth waiting.

JBL sound good in twin. Costs maybe $300-$375 to install 2 of them.
But that is better than cheap speakers.
I would rather spend that later, than buying cheap speakers now.

I will enjoy EVM or JBL for years and years.
I will always appreciate the great tone...
And it will last for a really long time.

But if I buy cheap speaker, I'm not going to be pleased with it for a long time.
It will blow, or I will get tired of the cheap sound...
So to me, cheap speaker is a waste of money.

There are lots of speakers in the "under $100 price range."
But to me, they don't sound much different from the original fender speakers.
Or they sound worse.

The really good speakers (like EVM or JBL) sound much better than the stock speakers.
The difference is very noticeable. Big improvements, when I spend big money.
It's worth it, to me, to spend that extra money.

And, realize that stock speaker in twin is not that bad.
Does the stamped metal frame speaker ($100 or so) sound better than stock speaker?
I really don't think so myself.

I would rather have cast frame.
There really is a noticeable improvement over stamped frame speaker, I think.

And there is Field Coil Speaker.
I think Field Coil sounds better than any other speaker, although not as efficient.
I would "rather" have Field Coil Speakers.
But Field Coil is Obsolete and very impractical.
I would need to change the design of the amp, to use field coil speakers.
So, I would rule that out, even though I would rather have it...
(maybe someday)

[popoahi]

I was just reading up on series and parallel wiring and how to change the ohm rating by the way you wire it...
thanks for the advice....
I do want new speakers so I will have to take out the old and in with the new..

aloha, popo

[Tone Meister]

OK, in considering your last comments, this is pretty simple to me. My suggestion is that you order two Eminence Delta Pro 12A (8 ohms) and not settle for whatever speakers your local shop may have on hand. These are $84 each with FREE shipping, and you're not going to find a better speaker for your needs, and you're certainly not going to find a more robust speaker for twice the price. I agree with soundguruman on this one, forget the cheap speakers. If you're going to upgrade, then upgrade.

I'd order two of these and be done with it: Eminence Delta Pro 12A

[popoahi]

hey Leo,

good to hear from you... you may be right about not needing speakers for guitar cause it sounds pretty good when playing guitar only... I thought "I just want to save the original speakers" for posterity..lol
then I wouldn't be afraid to play at high power?


I hope the store has these texas heat to check out or eminence models that seems like more guys like? what's wrong with celestions? my vox has celestion and it sounds great or is it due to cabinet design???....
I'd like to find out the price of JBL's??? seems like everyone likes them?


I just hope all speakers have the same screw holes so I don't have to drill and measure.....I'm also really concerned about the threaded half of the screws.... that they will stay in place so they won't spin when I re-tighten the nuts back on the new speaker? please tell me they won't spin or make me have to takeoff the front grill to get a hold on them???


you're right about the sales guy though, at least now I have a list of speakers written down to check out so I won't get talked into the deal of the day.....




aloha, popo

PS; just got the post from paulP amps so he answered the question that the stock spkrs are 8 ohms but wired in parallel to get 4 ohms....( I thought they were 4 ohm spkr's)
so I need to buy 8 ohm spkr's....that can handle 120 or 150 watts....
only thing I'm asking is the higher wattage spkr I put in would I hve to turn the amp up higher to get a comparable dirty/overdrive sound?? or is getting the higher wattage spkr just better protection against blowing the spkr's out or probably a little of both would be my guess????

what would you want and why,, a 120 watt or 150 watt spkr?? I was even going to look for a 175 watt spkr if they make them just to be sure I don't blow them out,,, but like I said before would it make me have to turn the amp to 10 to get that dirty/overdiven sound??? I don't want to run out of power trying to get that sound....

aloha

[soundguruman]

OK, in considering your last comments, this is pretty simple to me. My suggestion is that you order two Eminence Delta Pro 12A (8 ohms) and not settle for whatever speakers your local shop may have on hand. These are $84 each with FREE shipping, and you're not going to find a better speaker for your needs, and you're certainly not going to find a more robust speaker for twice the price. I agree with soundguruman on this one, forget the cheap speakers. If you're going to upgrade, then upgrade.

I'd order two of these and be done with it: Eminence Delta Pro 12A

That's the poor man's JBL.

[Tone Meister]

That's the poor man's JBL.

Not to mention that they're readily available, handle double the wattage, at 25% of the cost, and are clearly superior to a JBL when overdriven. You must have never heard the Delta Pro in a Twin, or undoubtedly you'd agree. The days of finding solid D120 and K120 JBLs are long gone. Most of what are available anymore are completely trashed or reconed with inferior parts. If you do happen to find a good pair, it'll take a second mortgage to get them shipped to Hawaii.

[jamesmafyew]

First of all, what was linked to is NOT the Delta Pro. It's the plain-vanilla Delta 12. That listing is misleading. The real Delta Pro is a cast-frame driver and goes for $125 typically.

Eminence Delta Pro 12A 12" Speaker 400 Watt 8 Ohm Xcaseproaudio | eBay

Check the TS parameters and FR graphs on Eminence's site -- the Delta and the Delta Pro are different speakers, it's not just a difference in the basket material.

I completely disagree with SGM that the Delta Pro is a poor man's JBL. It sounds 95% as good with cleans as a JBL, and about 1000% better with overdrive. I consider it to be the equal of the EVM12L in versatility, and I personally like the high end better than the EVM.

It bums me out that people look at Eminence's pricing and think they're "cheap" speakers. Eminence makes great stuff -- stuff which some people like more than others -- but their pricing is primarily a result of economies of scale and not degradation of manufacturing quality. Eminence makes an absolutely unbelievable quantity of speakers every year -- they have contracts with everybody. I blow up at least a couple Celestions every year; I've never blown out an Eminence that was being used within its rated power.

[popoahi]

amazon and shopzilla so far is like a candy store but hawaii shipping rates suck...

so maybe the store here might have some good choices?
they usually match prices and you don't get stuck with shipping...looked at the texas heat and swamp thang online... but so much more..

why doesn't recommend celestions? or does the silence say it all...i wonder what brand my stock speakers are? Fender stuck its name on but someone had to make it..
are celestions the porshces of speakers or what? and I hope the mounting holes line up???

[jamesmafyew]

The majority of the Celestion line is currently made in China. Reliability is hit-or-miss. Beyond that, most people just don't use Celestions in clean amps generally and Fenders in particular. Very few Celestions would have the power you'd need for this application, anyway.

Celestions are heavily associated with Marshall and cranked overdrive tone. Most of them are one-trick-ponies, and many people feel that they are overpriced.

[soundguruman]

First of all, what was linked to is NOT the Delta Pro. It's the plain-vanilla Delta 12. That listing is misleading. The real Delta Pro is a cast-frame driver and goes for $125 typically.

Eminence Delta Pro 12A 12" Speaker 400 Watt 8 Ohm Xcaseproaudio | eBay

Check the TS parameters and FR graphs on Eminence's site -- the Delta and the Delta Pro are different speakers, it's not just a difference in the basket material.

I completely disagree with SGM that the Delta Pro is a poor man's JBL. It sounds 95% as good with cleans as a JBL, and about 1000% better with overdrive. I consider it to be the equal of the EVM12L in versatility, and I personally like the high end better than the EVM.

It bums me out that people look at Eminence's pricing and think they're "cheap" speakers. Eminence makes great stuff -- stuff which some people like more than others -- but their pricing is primarily a result of economies of scale and not degradation of manufacturing quality. Eminence makes an absolutely unbelievable quantity of speakers every year -- they have contracts with everybody. I blow up at least a couple Celestions every year; I've never blown out an Eminence that was being used within its rated power.

"It sounds 95% as good with cleans as a JBL, and about 1000% better with overdrive."

If you are tone deaf...I'm sure you think it sounds like JBL...
And a twin does not overdrive.

* The reason professionals consider JBL the industry standard,
is that it has a very clear and crisp (percussive) upper mid and high frequency -- that no other speaker has.

The JBL is constructed differently from any other speaker...with an edge wound (reverse wound) voice coil.

And JBL is the industry standard for recording studio monitors also.

Although, I should mention that JBL is actually Sansui Japan...and many of the crossovers and cabinet parts are Chinese...
The high frequency diaphragms apparently manufactured in USA...or at least some of them are...


However something else I got yesterday:
Jeff Beck is using all Fender Speakers in all his amps. He takes out the fancy high end speakers, and installs Fender gold label speakers.
And those Fender speakers are his favorite sounding for guitar.

[potatofarmer]

what's wrong with celestions?

You're probably looking at a more drastic change in tone with Celestions or any "British voiced" speaker. You may like it; many people have tried one "American" voiced speaker and one "British" voiced speaker and others wouldn't dream of deviating from an "American" sounding speaker. Ultimately it's like sauerkraut on a hot dog - all about taste.

I just hope all speakers have the same screw holes so I don't have to drill and measure.....I'm also really concerned about the threaded half of the screws.... that they will stay in place so they won't spin when I re-tighten the nuts back on the new speaker? please tell me they won't spin or make me have to takeoff the front grill to get a hold on them???

The screws Fender used have two sets of threads, a thicker thread near the head of the screw and then a thinner thread that goes through the speaker frame. Here's a website with a picture: Fender Speaker Bolts Machine Screws With Pointed Ends + Kep Nuts, 1 Dozen Good idea to make sure they're tight, but you should just be able to remove the nuts, then the old speaker, then add the new speaker, and put the nuts back on.

only thing I'm asking is the higher wattage spkr I put in would I hve to turn the amp up higher to get a comparable dirty/overdrive sound?? or is getting the higher wattage spkr just better protection against blowing the spkr's out or probably a little of both would be my guess????

Better protection against blowing the speakers. If the new speakers are more sensitive, the amp might be louder before it starts to break up. There is speaker distortion too, of course, but primarily the amp is making the distortion. The amp will still break up with the volume set to "5" or whatever it was before, but that "5" might be as loud as "7" used to be with the old speakers. You're not going to run out of power with this amp, that much is guaranteed.

You can still blow 175W speakers in an open-backed amp like this by putting too much bass through them. I think I mentioned already I'm using Peavey Scorpoins because I had them lying around, and they're 200W speakers, but with the amp at full output or distorting, the Scorpions are still very unhappy with the bass any higher than 3. I'm typically playing in a baritone tuning though, so that makes things a little worse.

And a twin does not overdrive.

Oh, you could not be more wrong. "A twin does not overdrive at sane volume or without causing hearing damage" sure. Or if you want to get really pedantic about it, turn the master down to 1 and crank the channel volume and voila, even the preamp will overdrive...

[Tone Meister]

First of all, what was linked to is NOT the Delta Pro. It's the plain-vanilla Delta 12. That listing is misleading. The real Delta Pro is a cast-frame driver and goes for $125 typically.

Yep, you're absolutely right about that. I was in a hurry and missed the misleading title. Any way, it was the Delta Pro 12A that I was referring to, sorry for linking to the wrong speaker.

[popoahi]

thank you so very much for this reply......it's exactly what I asked for

aloha, popo

[Justin Thomas]

Twins don't overdrive? Since when? Sure they do, if you're up to the onslaught of huge volume! And seriously, most of my friends' car stereos are more painfully loud than a Twin on 10. Amps I've turned on 10 - as in, guitar (on 10)>cable>amp, Master Volume (if it had one) AND the channel volume AND the tone controls all at least at 5, and NO PEDALS: 2 Bassman 100s, TR Reissue, 69 Dual Showman Reverb, Super Twin (yeah, the 180W one)... they're not THAT loud!

Do I gig like that? Hell no. Do I do it for hours on end? No. But do they overdrive? Yup!
Now where'd I put that DR400? What? What? What?

Justin