Electron path of travel

[J M Fahey]

Aren't you guys SICK of this stupid thread?
134 posts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!
Everything that conceivably be said about this could have been said in 3 or four posts !!!!!!!!!!
So there are 130 useless ones, including this one.
Worst part is, it is bringing out the ugliest part from each of you, with a *few* honrous exceptions.
I would have never believed that such a fine assortment of technical geniuses could get stuck in such a childish discussion.
Is this a "he who shouts loudest wins" type of discussion?
Please read *other* posts and try to help people with *real* problems.
Just my 2 cents.

[guitarmike2107]

You know you can gracefully unsubscribe from the thread by clicking the link at the bottom of the e-mails you receive.

Steve has been very graceful and hopefully I have not been too arrogant myself.. Though I do suffer from this occasionally

Defaced asked for further clarification on this lower down in the thread, and it helpful for me to think about and debate it too. I have learnt / re-learnt loads today.

Thanks

[defaced]

I just like discussing Physics. I might be a sarcastic ass at times, and including in this very thread albeit subtly, but I just like discussing technical stuff. That's pretty much the only reason I became an engineer. Well, and the fame and glory of melting metal with an arc. That's just too cool not to figure out how to get paid to work with it in the capacity I do.

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Consider this. Velocity is a vector. Speed is a scalar. Their units are both lenth/time. They both measure the same thing, except one considers the direction the motion occurs.

[Chuck H]

There IS a lot of repeated info. But I don't mind so much. The more I read, the more I get so repetition helps. Great to have much of it in layman's terms that make it accessible to non EE members.

P.S.

Mike, "I" wasn't saying that there is no force to move electrons from negative to positive. I was saying that the water analogy offers no explaination in it's macro view. That was the point behind the church fire. If the river is the power supply with water being the electrons, moving from higher positive elevation to the relatively negative lower elevation, gravity being voltage (speed) and CFS (cubic feet per second) being current. Then the church fire is a peripheral circuit drawing electrons in the other direction (back to a higher elevation) and the line of bucket passers is the conductor. The buckets represents the electron trade along the conductor. There see, I made the water analogy work.

Oh, and Enzo asked what the bursting pressure of the pipe would represent (in another analogy)... It would represent the wattage limitations of the conductor or course. So in my above analogy I guess that would have to be represented by really big buckets and malnourished towns folk. (Sorry, how many times in life will I get to write that?!?)

[defaced]

Burst pressure is voltage. It is directly analgous to an insolators voltage rating. Electrical power is analgous to flowing waters kenetic energy per unit time.

[guitarmike2107]

I just like discussing Physics. I might be a sarcastic ass at times, and including in this very thread albeit subtly, but I just like discussing technical stuff. That's pretty much the only reason I became an engineer. Well, and the fame and glory of melting metal with an arc. That's just too cool not to figure out how to get paid to work with it in the capacity I do.

---

Consider this. Velocity is a vector. Speed is a scalar. Their units are both lenth/time. They both measure the same thing, except one considers the direction the motion occurs.

Me too.

I concede that your speed/velocity comparison throws out the pish theory I came up with earlier about A.m in vector form. Sorry Steve, someone should really remove my creative license

It is obvious why Mechanical Engineers have distinguished between the two in naming, Velocity is crucial when studying dynamics and infers there is more information known about the direction of movement relative to a co-ordinate system/fixed body.

I can see how this would be boring and fundamental for many.. apologies all round

[guitarmike2107]

mmm I find your malnourished town folk analogy a little confusing, but rather humorous considering I live in that sort of town.

I think each person passing the bucket must be like a gain stage or EMF source as energy is required to be put in to get the water to the fire, the water goes on the fire, evaporates, forms a cloud, rains, goes back into the river, to be used again for putting out the fire... next time.

Simple closed electrical circuit.

[Wilder Amplification]

Consider this. Velocity is a vector. Speed is a scalar. Their units are both lenth/time. They both measure the same thing, except one considers the direction the motion occurs.

I'm definitely no physics major by any stretch of the title, but isn't Velocity actually the product of a scalar and a vector (i.e. Velocity = Distance x Time Period)?

[defaced]

Sure, you could break it down into its components and get that, as you can with any vector quantity, but fundamentally is it defined that way, no. It's defined as the first derivative of displacement. And displacement is a vector.

[guitarmike2107]

Velocity is displacement divided by time dx/dt, Defaced units are correct m/s or ms^(-1)

I still dont see that any of this makes an argument that current is a vector.

[Merlinb]

Merlin,

Could you please provide comment to my post linked here: http://music-electronics-forum.com/t22755-3/#post191920

Maybe I'm blind, but I didn't find the link?

[Wilder Amplification]

Maybe I'm blind, but I didn't find the link?

Maybe it was this one -

Electron path of travel

[defaced]

Post #113.

[Chuck H]

No... The line of towns folk are atoms in the conductor (perhaps a length of copper wire) and the buckets are electrons jumping along the chain (as per the "hole" theory if you will). The water reaches the burning church where some hits the ground and returns to the water table and is returned to the river via springs. Some hits the fire and is evaporated into the air where it is returned to the surrounding landscape via creeks and streams, eventually returning to the river. There... A closed circuit.

The point is that the fire demands water and the conductor (towns folk) provide it. The water analogy works if you add fire. There you go, all the elements at play. Earth fire and water. I don't know as much about electronics as any EE but I do know that all the energy that is here on earth is all the energy that was here on earth and is all the energy that will be here on earth. It seems much the same in a concise electronic circuit. The energy changes hands but was, is and will always be there. We manipulate it to our will but it's existence simply is.

Another P.S.
Good for you that you live in a small town. I come from a serious metropolis where I lived all my life but I now live in a small town... I'm never going back to a big city if I can help it.

[Steve Conner]

Chuck, that is quite a good analogy. We all know that this electron stuff is hogwash, circuits really run off fire and smoke.

Proof: If the fire and smoke escapes from the circuit, it stops working. In particular, vacuum tubes have a little fire inside that you can see glowing, hence the nickname of "fire bottles". If the glass ever gets broken, the magic smoke and fire is gone for good.

Maybe JM Fahey should write us an executive summary of the thread.