question about adding a 25uf bypass cap in parallel with a 2 uf bypass cap SF Champ

[Chuck H]

I would like to suggest a 10" speaker at this point. The Eminence 1058. Ample, but tight lows and soft, but not muffled highs. A very good guitar speaker IMHO. Efficient too as 10" guitar speakers go. The Mesa E50 is a tad better but costs about $10 more too. I think these are good candidates for the sort of amp your doing.

JM2C

[catnine]

I would like to suggest a 10" speaker at this point. The Eminence 1058. Ample, but tight lows and soft, but not muffled highs. A very good guitar speaker IMHO. Efficient too as 10" guitar speakers go. The Mesa E50 is a tad better but costs about $10 more too. I think these are good candidates for the sort of amp your doing.

JM2C

I looked at the one you suggested but it's $60 . I did find one jensen makes called a Falcon . it has a green cone but is focued on the low end . I have no idea how they do the sound clips but it does stand out in bottom end compared to the C10R or MOD 10/50 . It does not sound as clear as the Eminence 1058 yet it's only $43 about as much as I can afford these days. Since I added the laregr second gain bypass cap there is now more bottom end in the C10R .

What I was trying to do is since my P-P build much like a brown princeton but with Allen Amps HD Deluxe trannys it's at about 18 to 20 watts and I had a weber 30 watt ceramic silver bell in it but it was way to bass heavy so I sold the silver bell and got a weber Sig 12 S alnico rated at 25 watts yet the SB had a 1 3/4" Voice coil and a 40oz ceramic mag and the sig 12 has a 1" VC 7oz alnico mag . I never thought much about the structure of the speaker and hope the 25 watt sig 12s holds up . I never crank that amp here anyway and so far it's been holding up fine and has a great bottom end . So I thought I could use the weber sig 10 s ceramic I have in a larger cab I built that the PP chassis fots in since it's 25 watt and I could add it to the weber sig 12 s alnico if I did need to crank the amp and not blow the sig 12.. All I know is if an amp puts out 20 watts the speaker should be twice that . It's not like I gig or play for hours on end any more so the sig 12 should last a long time.

I once had quite a few eminence 12's and 10's and weber 12's and 8's and 10's but time got hard so I had to sell some at a loss as usual I was a fool for selling some of them. And this was 5 years ago and the prices have really gone up since then.

[Chuck H]

Mating a speaker to an amp is super critical in getting that last 5% tone out of it. Unfortunately, with the exception of a happy accident, this can mean buying four or five speakers to find a really good mate. Then there's the surplus speakers and overhead to deal with .!. The Weber Signatures have a good rep. A lot of guys like them. I have my "go to" speakers and I'm very familiar with them. This helps when choosing. But there are a bunch of speakers I'm NOT familiar with. The Weber Signatures are among those. 60-43=17 !!!!!! seventeen bucks isn't worth taking a chance in my world. I spend that on beer in three days. But then I can't guarantee that YOU will like the 1058 as much as I do!?! So it seems it's still up in the air.

[catnine]

Mating a speaker to an amp is super critical in getting that last 5% tone out of it. Unfortunately, with the exception of a happy accident, this can mean buying four or five speakers to find a really good mate. Then there's the surplus speakers and overhead to deal with .!. The Weber Signatures have a good rep. A lot of guys like them. I have my "go to" speakers and I'm very familiar with them. This helps when choosing. But there are a bunch of speakers I'm NOT familiar with. The Weber Signatures are among those. 60-43=17 !!!!!! seventeen bucks isn't worth taking a chance in my world. I spend that on beer in three days. But then I can't guarantee that YOU will like the 1058 as much as I do!?! So it seems it's still up in the air.

Back about 7 years ago I bought and tried every eminence 12 " they had but a few . I had a 2001 Pro jr and thought well I'll try the emininence copper something and after installing it I could not wait to get it out . It did not sound half as good as the stock eminence fender put it htere. Then I tried it in a pignose GV40 and it was worse than the stock pig 10.

The only eminence I liked was the tonker and the stonehenge both 12" . I then got a Mod12/50 and it sounded just like the stone henge .

As far as weber Sigs I have yet to get one I didn't like except the sig10 s ceramic . It's a good speaker but to bright , more so than the C10R . Certainly the british and vintage webers are better I guess than the sigs yet for the same spec they are 15 watts instead of 25 watts . I can't say if weber makes the sigs or if they are made somewhere else but they are as well made as the other webers I have had. Yet the weber british and vintage are past the $100 mark .

I can get the jensen Falcon right near me so the shipping is not that much . I am not an ebay member so that's out . There used to be a fellow on Ebay who sold the eminence for a lot less than the ones who sell them now.

$17 is not much more but like you said it's a matter of taste. I just had a real difficult time finding an emiminece that fit the sound I was after. As you know the sound clips can be from any amp . I went by their tone charts and even the texas hemp cone sounded dull to me so out of 15 speakers I found two I liked. Not that they are bad speakers at all , they are well made and many fenders use then as well as jensen RI's . I just feel they are over priced speakers . I may do nothing . I may just try to see if the C10R can be dialed in . I haven't had time to try it much since I added the higher bypass cap . It certainly has more bottom than a stock SF champ . I now live on a fixed income so even a few dollars makes a difference now days.

[Chuck H]

Back about 7 years ago I bought and tried every eminence 12 " they had but a few . I had a 2001 Pro jr and thought well I'll try the emininence copper something and after installing it I could not wait to get it out . It did not sound half as good as the stock eminence fender put it htere. Then I tried it in a pignose GV40 and it was worse than the stock pig 10.

The only eminence I liked was the tonker and the stonehenge both 12" . I then got a Mod12/50 and it sounded just like the stone henge .

As far as weber Sigs I have yet to get one I didn't like except the sig10 s ceramic .

A strong endorsement. And I would agree. I've tried many of the Emi 12's and found them all boxy and bland or boomy and fizzy. But I like the 1058!!! I also like the 1028k alnico model and the mesa model E50. The 1028k in a 4x10 it's super great. But you need to go with what you know. So rather than spend your money on an unknown quantity at a time when you don't have it to spare... I think you'll probably be alright with the Weber Signature 10 alnico model. I haven't heard it, but it get's good press and you have heard other Weber sig's, so... There you go. It's just too bad you can't get on top of the bad experience with the other Emi's. The same thing happened to me, But then I found the 10's to be really capitol.

[catnine]

A strong endorsement. And I would agree. I've tried many of the Emi 12's and found them all boxy and bland or boomy and fizzy. But I like the 1058!!! I also like the 1028k alnico model and the mesa model E50. The 1028k in a 4x10 it's super great. But you need to go with what you know. So rather than spend your money on an unknown quantity at a time when you don't have it to spare... I think you'll probably be alright with the Weber Signature 10 alnico model. I haven't heard it, but it get's good press and you have heard other Weber sig's, so... There you go. It's just too bad you can't get on top of the bad experience with the other Emi's. The same thing happened to me, But then I found the 10's to be really capitol.

The weber sig 10 alnico may be a great speaker trouble is the one I have now is a weber sig 10S ceramic . I hear some say they are difficult to break in and I have tried but it still sounded far to bright . I had the Jensen C10R I got used years ago and that's what I had in this champ build before I got the weber sig10 s ceramic . I used it is a speaker cab as well and it always sounded ok so I put it back in the Champ build and I could tell it was not as bright as the weber ceramic. The only difference I could find between the two looking at them was the Jensen had a smaller ceramic magnet but the cone and voice coil and dust cap and basket look identical . I sort of doubt the weber sig 10S alnico would sound much different than the ceramic version since it's only the magnet type that differers. Plus the sig 10 alnico is 15 watts rated and the ceramic is 25 watts so perhaps the voice coil is made lighter even though it's the same size .

[JoeM]

I have Weber Sig10s Alnico in my 5F6A clone. I don't find them bright at all, they sound great in that amp.

[catnine]

I have Weber Sig10s Alnico in my 5F6A clone. I don't find them bright at all, they sound great in that amp.

How does it sound when it breaks up? What guitar do you use and what vol does it break up? A 5F6A is a bassman with 4 10's so we are talking different amps .

[JoeM]

At any volume level I've played the amp, the speakers sound good. At home I've never had the amp up loud enough to break up. It's been used mainly with an ES-335 or 345, or a Strat.

(Actually only 3x10s - the amp is built into a Tweed Bandmaster chassis and cabinet)

[catnine]

The weber sig 10 alnico may be a great speaker trouble is the one I have now is a weber sig 10S ceramic . I hear some say they are difficult to break in and I have tried but it still sounded far to bright . I had the Jensen C10R I got used years ago and that's what I had in this champ build before I got the weber sig10 s ceramic . I used it is a speaker cab as well and it always sounded ok so I put it back in the Champ build and I could tell it was not as bright as the weber ceramic. The only difference I could find between the two looking at them was the Jensen had a smaller ceramic magnet but the cone and voice coil and dust cap and basket look identical . I sort of doubt the weber sig 10S alnico would sound much different than the ceramic version since it's only the magnet type that differers. Plus the sig 10 alnico is 15 watts rated and the ceramic is 25 watts so perhaps the voice coil is made lighter even though it's the same size .

Today I got a chance to play the Champ with the added second gain bypass cap and since it's switchable I tired it both ways and I must say that the larger bypass cap made enough difference that the jensen C10R sounded better . I had more bottem end . So for now the C10R seems ok ,seems fine.

[catnine]

At any volume level I've played the amp, the speakers sound good. At home I've never had the amp up loud enough to break up. It's been used mainly with an ES-335 or 345, or a Strat.

(Actually only 3x10s - the amp is built into a Tweed Bandmaster chassis and cabinet)

Ok . However the amp you have does produce a lot more lows than a SF Champ . I have a weber Sig 12S alnico in a build like a brown Princeton 6G2 with larger tranny's like a BF Deluxe uses and the Sig 12 s alnico is described as a bright speaker but it's not bright in that amp at all. I did have a 1973 SF Champ and replaced the stock speaker witha weber Sig 8S alnico and it sounded real good then I put the SF champ Chassis in a 71 fender music master bass amp cab that had a 12 . I just made an adapter ring so I could fit the 8 and the larger cab did help . Then I got a weber Sig 10S alnico when they made then in the 4 ohm version and put it in the same MM bass amp cab and the only real difference was it had a bit more bottom than the 8 did . if I turned down the bass pot 2 numbers it sounded just like the sig 8s. So the 10 had more bottom end , not a lot but more. Yet with 3 10's you are pushing more air than one . I need more bottom end than the sig 10 put out in a Champ and in order to get that I would need a speaker with a larger voice coil and magnet and higher wattage . I had a fender pro jr I got in 1994 and it was tweed and came witha fender /eminence blue frame alnico then I sold the amp , later I got a 2001 pro jr and it had a fender/eminence 30 watt ceramic and I got the blue frame from fender wanting it to be like the tweed but the only difference I could hear was the blueframe broke up earlier both sounded the same until breakup they both had the same cone and 1" voice coil and frame other than the color and the ceramic mag. Alnicos do have a smoother breakup and seem to give in a bit earlier.