Right back to basics/ pg1 Qs.

[DRH1958]

It amazes me that in 2015 an amp hasnt been designed to get a touch-sensitive gtr-vol-interact-thing that distorts well & isnt a toddlers 1W toy, but doesnt incur the police are called, or family is fractured, or the neighbours become hate-filled & threatening.

There are plenty out there but are expensive. Many of the boutique amps that have minimal controls are designed to just what you are talking about. What does your budget look like? Here's just one. Five watts, built in attenuator: Dr. Z Amplification | Mini Z
One less expensive amp would be the Ibanez TSA-15. It has a built in tube screamer that's switchable and a 15/5W switch. No master vol. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ampli...itar-combo-amp Five watts might still be too much but worth a look. Turn on the TS, turn up the overdrive, turn down the level. Or the other way around. Plus a 6dB boost to engage for a hotter signal and then turn down the guitar vol? Maybe.
How about this one? Needa a cab. http://www.ebay.com/itm/BIYANG-WANG-...item4aecab04eb

[Sea Chief]

My budget now thats easy I can work that one out. Its £0.

A Valve Jnr to gig with? sheesh I had one for 5 mins it was the flattest sounding thing & all dumpy mdf made in china already. A Blues Jr is not the fender amp I like the sound of.A Deville sounds pretty good, but Im more a BF fan tbh.

Ok so there seems no choice available really, so Im back to attenuating the DR. I have 2 brilliant ideas..

1) I wonder if I could build a soundproof box thing for my DR spkr cabinet. In theory (not practical) if one was a concrete walled thing lined with rockwool etc, front wall some sort of I dont know what.. I do have the DR head already separate at least.

2) What about (another brilliant theory) I fully enclose a 10" as innefficient as poss spkr say mounted on ply centrally inside an uber-tight thick soundproof box thing/ all sides etc.. then have a mic inside, feeding to my 1x12 DR cabinet to then turn the b'stard down?

[eschertron]

The Carr amp ads I've seen suggest they make amps for stay-at-home jammers, too. Look them up you're so inclined. As a 'booteek' amp builder, I'm sure the amps are out there, price wise.

So we are at this juncture: There are amps, built for gigging, that do what we want. Problem is, they were designed to fill clubs and concert halls! There are amps built for practice rooms, but they either lack in the mojo dept., or are too loud for home when cranked. I'm with Justin; my champ sounds just fine through a 2x12 open-back cab. A bit loud for after curfew, but fine. My sub-1W amp creams up nicely at living room volumes, but also needs the 2x12 cab to be "present" in the acoustic space.

We make do with what we have. When the amp comes along that delivers all the goods at home volume, it will be because designers realized there's a market for that (hint, hint). In the meantime experiment, knowing that every choice is a compromise.

[Chuck H]

This is a simple attenuator that is relatively inexpensive to make. I use the aluminum housed resistors from Mouser and mount them on the top of an aluminum project box or on a bent sheet of aluminum mounted between the rear baffles on combo amps for a semi permanent installation. Omit the 1 ohm resistor to get to zero volume. It's there because rheostats are a little glitchy at the ends and this resistor seems to minimize the effect, but it also makes for a minimum output from your DR of about a watt. Omit the 1 ohm resistor with a jumper and you can get volume down to zero safely.

[Sea Chief]

This is a simple attenuator that is relatively inexpensive to make. I use the aluminum housed resistors from Mouser and mount them on the top of an aluminum project box or on a bent sheet of aluminum mounted between the rear baffles on combo amps for a semi permanent installation. Omit the 1 ohm resistor to get to zero volume. It's there because rheostats are a little glitchy at the ends and this resistor seems to minimize the effect, but it also makes for a minimum output from your DR of about a watt. Omit the 1 ohm resistor with a jumper and you can get volume down to zero safely.

Hi ChuckH- ok that sounds a plan.. I trust your judgement so will seriously look into this. Have you tried it with a prized amp? I mean my DR here is rather an expensive amp (to me) even having built it, some bits v costly: are you sure its sturdy enough/ parts are quality enough in order to ramp up the DR's vol safely? I didnt know you could get an attenuator to go to zero volume: Id read all of them cut vol but not hugely overall, so your still left with pretty high vol even at its min. And what about the treble- doesnt that seriously diminish? Ive been struggling to an extent with the SG > DR re brightness, I have bass 3 treb 7 on permenantly even on the Vibrato 2nd channel.

[DRH1958: sorry if I wasnt clear- when I said I had 3 amps unable to get distortion, I meant due to volume issues, which I knew before buying: a DR is still a fine thing with rev & vib at low vols + a pedal or 2. I couldnt resist a broken ungrilled WEMdominator for £110+ (I fixed) even if it sits unused.. actaully I love its tubey vintage smell/ is that weird?! (maybe a SC fetish!). My Champ on the other hand IS a bit of a disaster: little od even maxed so I dont use/ prob need to split & sell). I also never said anything about having a budget with an eye for buying an amp.. thought maybe I could sell all 3 amps to fund a 2-channel supersonic22 IF I was convinced this was the amp that fit the bill re the gtr vol thing + a seriously good gain channel: but sounds perhaps not the amp after all, & my DR looks too damn purty too].

Thanks for your words chaps, all read through thoughrally. SC

Thanks SC.

[pdf64]

So we are at this juncture: There are amps, built for gigging, that do what we want. Problem is, they were designed to fill clubs and concert halls! There are amps built for practice rooms, but they either lack in the mojo dept., or are too loud for home when cranked. I'm with Justin; my champ sounds just fine through a 2x12 open-back cab. A bit loud for after curfew, but fine. My sub-1W amp creams up nicely at living room volumes, but also needs the 2x12 cab to be "present" in the acoustic space.

A FluxTone speaker enables my AC30 etc to do all three, without any compromise in tone / response.
OK it costs way more than regular fixed efficiency speakers, but it's still rather less than a nice guitar or hifi, and makes life much more simple.
Despite their price hike to even more eye watering levels, just on cost terms it represents good value, from the gear no longer required (purchase / storage / maintenance).

[Chuck H]

Hi ChuckH- ok that sounds a plan.. I trust your judgement so will seriously look into this. Have you tried it with a prized amp? I mean my DR here is rather an expensive amp (to me) even having built it, some bits v costly: are you sure its sturdy enough/ parts are quality enough in order to ramp up the DR's vol safely?

There's absolutely nothing to fear from most attenuators. The spotty rep for attenuators comes from players with amps in questionable condition or adjustment FINALLY being able to crank them up. Such amps spend maybe a few moments being cranked on rare occasions. With an attenuator they now spend hours being cranked repeatedly. If the amp isn't up to being cranked full time through speakers then it's not up to being cranked full time through an attenuator. The other thing that has caused attenuators to get a rep is that it's an extra THING in the amp to speaker chain. The likelihood of a bad connection or cord or an absent minded failure to plug everything in doubles. A tube amp with no load is on borrowed time. Making sure the amp is in proper order, and all connections are secure, an attenuator is gentler on an amp than a speaker load. My personal amp has been running flat out with every use for eight years! usually through an attenuator. No problems.

I didnt know you could get an attenuator to go to zero volume: Id read all of them cut vol but not hugely overall, so your still left with pretty high vol even at its min.

Most models will go to zero, or nearly. Most players don't like the tone that way. It's "common knowledge" that cutting as little as necessary is best for tone. This probably true, but not for the reasons usually sited. Quiet vs. loud is always a compromise. But whatcha gon doo.?. Loud and proud is great, but if you can't do that and you still need to play...

And what about the treble- doesnt that seriously diminish?

IMHE it's not that bad. It's easy to get all nit picky about it. The alternative is to accept that things sound and react different when quiet than they do when loud and just get back to playing your guitar Some marketed attenuators have compensation switches for top end adjustment. I think they sound like crap. YMMV. My personal attenuator is like the one shown but it uses an speaker emulator load with inductors and capacitors rather than a strictly resistive load. I think it sounds fine at any level. The special load circuit involves expensive parts. Others here have tried the purely resistive version posted and report good results. I've installed it built into a couple of custom amps for customers and they seem to like it fine. I think the purely resistive load does affect the tone at extreme attenuation, but not so much a loss of treble. It sort of flattens out the frequency response and reduces the natural bouncy effect that a louder, live speaker has. I think that's to be expected.

.. actaully I love its tubey vintage smell/ is that weird?!

Nope

I think being able to crank up your Dom is where having an attenuator will really come in handy.

The diagram posted is for an 8 ohm load. It'll manage up to a 25W amp full time and will probably get hot enough to concern you. But don't be concerned.

[Jazz P Bass]

A word of caution here.

"There's absolutely nothing to fear from most attenuators."

I had a Fender Bassman amp, running into an attenuator, that I had to up the screen resistors on (470 to 1K), otherwise it ate output tubes.

[Sea Chief]

Ok Chuck- you've convinced me. Had a look at the main part & an 'Ohmite 25w 25Ohm rheostat' is about £40 already.. so aint gonna be so cheap. Does it have to be "25 Ohm" spot-on? (for eg an Ohmite 6 ohm is £15). And I guess going for Ohmite seemingly being the best quality, is the only sensible idea?

[Chuck H]

A word of caution here.

"There's absolutely nothing to fear from most attenuators."

I had a Fender Bassman amp, running into an attenuator, that I had to up the screen resistors on (470 to 1K), otherwise it ate output tubes.

Good caution!!! It's true enough that the "load" will affect dissipation. And most speakers present a load that has a higher impedance (sometimes very high) at some low-ish resonance and then again rising in the HF. One has to wonder if that Bassman could handle being played with the same settings into a speaker load, but the lower impedance @ frequency of a resistive load should probably always create more dissipation. I guess my statements above about attenuators being "gentler" could be taken as a misnomer. So, a little harder on tubes (watch for it as Jazz correctly points out) and a little easier on the output transformer is probably more accurate. This is probably why many attenuators use a high-ish load for their rating. Like a 30 ohm resistive load for an 8 ohm amp impedance requirement. The thinking here (I guess) is that it averages out more like the dynamic impedance of a speaker to prevent over dissipation of the tubes.

Sorry for the slight derail Sea Chief

[Sea Chief]

Ok I understand there are some who advise caution- I will see how I go.

Reading the thoughts about extra load or work on the power tubes.. is this wise then for my DR RI, considering it has high voltages? (Just to recap: its a DR RI with a hammond xfmr). Originally I read a whopping B+ of 480v with the 5AR4 Id bought ready. After advice on here to go 5U4GB, Im still very high at 440v (~normal 22mA set).

Considering a std DR, with a 5AR4 should read 410v (so 380v ish with a 5U4) Im still sort of concerned. Should I be having a word with the supplier of the xfmr? it is noted as a DR xfmr on their site. Im thinking maybe this is the reason I was offered it as a one-off a bit cheaper by the Co.

[Chuck H]

Ok Chuck- you've convinced me. Had a look at the main part & an 'Ohmite 25w 25Ohm rheostat' is about £40 already.. so aint gonna be so cheap. Does it have to be "25 Ohm" spot-on? (for eg an Ohmite 6 ohm is £15). And I guess going for Ohmite seemingly being the best quality, is the only sensible idea?

I use the Ohmite rheostats. They are spendy in most places but can be found much more cheaply if you're willing to look around. Since you're on the other side of the pond I guess there's shipping to consider as well so that's going to make it tougher to get a deal.

RHS25R | eBay

[Sea Chief]

RHS25R | eBay ..So I can go 50w 25 Ohm?

[Chuck H]

RHS25R | eBay ..So I can go 50w 25 Ohm?

The seller got the description wrong in the listing. The RHS25R is a 25W part. But, yes, you can go with a 50W or 100W rheostat instead of a 25W. As long as it's 25 ohms and not rated lower than 25W it's fine.

[olddawg]

Check out a Weber Mini Mass attenuator.