About amp "immediacy"

[nosaj]

You guys on this blog are amp wizards. I bet if you came up with a technical definition, you could get it put into wikipedia, then it would be written in electrons, forever.

Only problem with that is anyone can add/edit wikipedia, so therein lies the problem.

[Chuck H]

At no point has the OP stated what input signal (instruments) we are using through the amp or even which amps can be taken as examples.

He actually did say this will be a guitar amp, mostly. And he mentioned that some amps are known to have that special quality of "immediacy". That's not examples, per se, but it's probably he figured we would be familiar with the phenomenon and the amps that have it. I'll bet he could ask the same basic question at TGP and get a dozen suggestions. Unfortunately they probably wouldn't be technically minded. More like "I have a *insert amp name* and it has a very immediate response." Which isn't helpful to anyone.

[g1]

I'm going to post this here and in the other thread as a public service announcement, and continue to do so as required.
For those of the brain trust here who are unaware, this 'team' started posting in the off-topic areas with a stated purpose. Now they have moved into general population and once again are getting their threads sticking to the top of the page.
They are not benign, and are growing in number like any viral infection.

I covered this in less detail before but I will disclose my methodology more completely below. There are websites that have what I call a multiplier. These are:

1. gun/self defense websites
2. entertainment industry related websites
3. technical and or specialized skill websites

What makes these sites impact multipliers is the higher level of society influencers than other websites. Many of these sites are compromised by deep state operators and controlled in a way this website is not. You already have some of these operators close to your buttons and I've hinted at who they probably are. I encourage you to make your own determinations. The big tells are the insistence on obfuscation, misinformation, conflation, diversion and when all those fail, silence of those protagonists by any available means. This effort started sometime after 2004 when the 911 truther movement started gaining some heat on the net. Most of these have been quashed effectively. You don't realize how valuable your site becomes to the deep state when you allow the information here to flow and present freely. They count on your ignorance of this as they conduct their voice muting operations. As the number of websites that allow open, polite and unmoderated discussions dwindle away, the more precious the domain that remains out of their control. My presence on websites has resulted in everything from moderation coups to domain buyouts when all the efforts above fail so I'm used to the turmoil around my presence. The most recent proof of this is evidenced at NevadaShooters.com which was bought out shortly after a few of our truthtellers (yes we are networked and cooperate but are individuals) started presenting what we knew about the Las Vegas shooting. Since we are in full disclosure, you have one of our team still in your moderation cue awaiting full membership that was the main truthteller there. The method they used there was to falsely accuse anyone disputing the official narrative as duplicate accounts of the same person. I know @gmaslin through this other team member and although I have been registered on the same websites that she has been, I don't believe I've ever interacted/communicated with her before here. This information has since been disclosed to her from this mutual acquaintance. Briefly, she knows who I am now.

[galaxiex]

So the method is, try a bunch of options & keep the ones you like.
That's pretty much my approach.
I call it design by dicking around.

-rb

I call it the TLAR method.

That Looks About Right

I use it a lot.

[loudthud]

Can anyone say that such and such an amplifier has immediacy and such and such an amp doesn't ? Does a 5E3 have it or not ?

Examples please.

Is there an amp that has it at certain control settings and then loses it if you adjust one or more of the controls ?

I built an amp and one of the players that tried it said it was "fast". It has a soft power supply, but no feedback in the signal path.

I can see where DSP modeling amps might have a slight delay in the signal path, perhaps 1 millisecond. Is that a lack of immediacy ?

At a gig (playing bass) one time I ran a long cord back to the stage from the sound board about 100 feet from the stage. I could hear the delay but was able to compensate and keep up with the band.

[Chuck H]

ALRIGHT!!! Enough is enough. Juan is gone and these guys are dominating the activity stream. I tried to stay out, as in not provocative. That didn't work. I tried supporting the dog pile. That has worked a little, but the problem continues to manifest with new opportunities. There may even be more sycophants ready to answer the call and sign up. This is seriously expert trolling. The only solution is to IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE!!! Anyone talking about the issues is detrimental to the cause. Obviously answering directly is a detriment to the cause. I am going to do something now that I have never done before and I encourage everyone else to do the same. I am going to "ignore" all suspects and "unsubscribe" from threads that are currently tainted. I'm out. Please join me.

[loudthud]

Across all of MEF there have been 152 thumbs down. (click the Statistics tab on your thumbs page.) yldouright has given 60 of them and received 29.

[big_teee]

ALRIGHT!!! Enough is enough. Juan is gone and these guys are dominating the activity stream. I tried to stay out, as in not provocative. That didn't work. I tried supporting the dog pile. That has worked a little, but the problem continues to manifest with new opportunities. There may even be more sycophants ready to answer the call and sign up. This is seriously expert trolling. The only solution is to IGNORE IGNORE IGNORE!!! Anyone talking about the issues is detrimental to the cause. Obviously answering directly is a detriment to the cause. I am going to do something now that I have never done before and I encourage everyone else to do the same. I am going to "ignore" all suspects and "unsubscribe" from threads that are currently tainted. I'm out. Please join me.

It's a great idea, but it hasn't worked to date.
They keep moving and finding members that haven't been aware of the other threads.
It can only be fixed by tboy!
I'm sure he doesn't like it either.
I have faith that eventually tboy will figure it out, and make the right decisions!

T

[Justin Thomas]

It can only be fixed by tboy!
I'm sure he doesn't like it either.
I have faith that eventually tboy will figure it out, and make the right decision!

Like with Noise-Wizard-Boy!

Jusrin

[big_teee]

Across all of MEF there have been 152 thumbs down. (click the Statistics tab on you thumbs page.) yldouright has given 60 of them and received 29.

I gave him some of those 29 , gave him one infraction, and the one and only vote to ban him!
That was the best I could do, and be all I could be!
In return I think 21 of my thumbs down received was from him and the other from syngyn, which is probaby douwrong, one and the same.
T
**Trust me, these trolls will be a pain in the forum's side until they are banned!

[The Dude]

......Trust me, these trolls will be a pain in the forum's side until they are banned!

I agree and I'm all for it.

[netfences]

**Trust me, these trolls will be a pain in the forum's side until they are banned!

I agree and I'm all for it.

I think you guys have pretty much validated what I said in post #84 of this thread. I don't know why I, or any other member should have their voice silenced for having an opinion. Banning someone in the digital realm is very much an assassination. If opinions are wrong, they show themselves up that way over time and get ignored/dismissed. I prefer that way to other more intrusive remedies. I would be surprised if the majority here didn't share that ethos. We're Americans and freedom to speak defines us.

For those that missed the touchy-feely definition of immediacy; it was described as the ability to recognize the distinct notes and emotive inflections of your playing. I entered into this with the impression slew rate might be where to look. I have since been convinced that only matters if it's insufficient. I offered an arbitrary benchmark of 10V/uS for a 50W amp as a generally attainable and blameless number but any power/slew combo that gets over 50kHz would seem enough if a corner rolloff doesn't interfere with it.

It was also suggested that high frequency emphasis would present the amp output more closely and therefore make it seem more immediate. I believe this is true but as others have pointed out, there is a danger of creating an icepicky sound. I'll consider this a tweak rather than a goal for immediacy. I have noted both tone and presence controls on an amp but don't fully understand the underlying differences of how they are achieved electrically. If someone can provide that explanation, I would appreciate it.

Another suggestion for immediacy was a dominant 2nd HD. Unlike higher frequencies which have a measurable time, reflection and decay difference this one is totally psycho acoustic in theory but I like the idea. If possible, I would like this to be one of the design goals.

The reactive relationship of the speaker drivers to the amp seems the most likely place to achieve "immediacy". The more I think about it, it is the sound wave from the monitor that we hear and judge as immediate. This is probably the meat and potatos of immediacy. The impedance curve of the driver and the ability of the amp to deliver sufficient current I deem goal one. Rather than burden the members here with a driver selection quest, I offer a common PA speaker that is fairly well documented as the standard to design the amp head. The JBL Pro Series AC28/95 has an ugly impedance curve but is fairly bulletproof and suitable for an instrument amp.

Gina suggested the Hiraga and the SKA (Greg Ball's Simple Killer Amp) as models to start with. I don't want power inefficiency so the Hiraga is out. The SKA is interesting but its dominant HD shifts from 2nd to 3rd as you go deeper into the power curve. Even so, all the distortion numbers are so low I don't think it matters. The amp has a reputation for being deadly quiet and that's a good thing. DIYA has a few threads dedicated to it if anyone wants to provide an opinion.

[Malcolm Irving]

... We're Americans …

In this thread: 17 USA, 1 Spain, 2 Canada, 7 not specified, 4 UK, 1 Germany

[rjb]

Ten years as a sound engineer....

Wow. Really?

[netfences]

Wow. Really?

My experience wasn't a boast, just a reply to Chuck H, why the snide comment?