Will this amp work for me???

[mattie5960]

Hello!
First, let me introduce myself. My name is Matt, I'm 15 years old and I sing in a band with a few of my friends. For Christmas this year, my parents got me a Behringer K1800FX amplifier to sing into. When I plugged my 1/4" mic into it expecting to be blown away compared to the 45 watt karaoke machine I've been using, I was disappointed to find that it was hardly any louder than the karaoke machine was.

Using the little knowledge of amplification that I have, I decided to plug my mic into the karaoke machine, and then plug the karaoke machine into my new amp with the idea that the karaoke machine would act as a pre-amp. It did in fact make the output volume much much louder than either of them had been by themselves before. Here's where my questions come in:

The new amp has a "XLR mic input" in the manual it says: "Due to internal +15V phantom power you can even use condenser microphones." What does all of this mean??? My dad and I are under the impression that the amp has some sort of built-in pre-amp when it's talking about the "+15V phantom power" which means that by using an "XLR mic", I may not need to use the karaoke machine anymore as a pre-amp right?

Another thing I've noticed is that when I plug my guitar directly into the amp, it's much much louder than my microphone is when it's directly plugged into the amp. Why is this? Is it because the guitar has it's own on-board volume adjuster that acts like a pre-amp?

Please note: on the website, this amp is referred to as a pa system and keyboard amp. I know pa systems are used for enhancing vocal volume along with instruments as well, but does the keyboard amp mean that it might not be best for only singing into?

If I must use a pre-amp, is it okay to use the karaoke machine as one? Or should I buy a separate one entirely? What would you suggest?

Please note that I'll probably have more questions after you guys/gals post back. As you can probably tell, I know next to nothing about amplification so any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot!!!

[drlowlow]

The first thing you will need to understand is that the different sources being used (and what the inputs on the amp are inherently designed for) are different. The microphone you are using doesn't sound to be a very good one and as the kareoke machine is designed for making not great microphones loud enough to be heard has more gain to pull the level loud enough to be heard from the 45 watts. I think you are plugging into a keyboard input (I might be wrong) which keyboards have a preamp built in by the nature of the instrument and therefor need less gain (would probably cause saturation on a high gain amp input). The phantom power you discussed is to power a microphone pre-amplifier (often inside the microphone). and isn't a pre-amp in itself. I think your best bet is to invest in a quality dynamic vocal microphone like the Shure SM58 and use the XLR imput on the amp which should have more gain (the Shure SM58 should also produce a bigger signal than whatever microphone you are using). hope this helps.

[mattie5960]

This is a problem then because the amp only has one XLR input and although We don't do too much backup, some of the songs we do absolutely require to have 2 people singing. You're right when you say that our mics are probably bad cuz we got them for $10 at radioshack. Would a higher quality mic with a 1/4" jack possibly make the amplification better for our backup singer?

Plus after looking at the prices of a Shure SM58, it looks like we won't be able to get one for under a few hundred dollars, and I'm sure that spending that much money on a single mic wouldn't go over well with the band =/.

Also, if a mic says that it's a dynamic mic, does that mean that it has an XLR cable?

[ricach]

I've used SM58's for many many years but was curious how the Behringer XM8500 sounds - at $19 I wasn't expecting much at all. I was pleasantly surprised, they are excellent, high output mics. I bought two more, and use them instead of 58's now. The only drawback to them is if you have a very powerful voice and thus can overdrive the mic. You can buy high-to-low impedance mic cables (XLR on the mic end, and 1/4" plug for the amp), that will work nicely with your keyboard/pa amp. You will also find just the adapter (with built in impedance xformer) to make the conversion at your radio shack as well.

[mattie5960]

Do you know of any stores I can get the XM8500 at? Or will I have to buy it online?

[ricach]

Unfortunately you'll probably have to buy it online. Of course, most music stores would be happy to order one in for you if they carry other Behringer products, but they'll probably suggest something they have in stock that might work just as well for your budget.

[mattie5960]

I'm looking at a few mics online and some of them say "unidirectional" or "omnidirectional" what's this mean?

[ricach]

Uni- is just that. One-directional. Means you have to be right in front of the mic. Depending on your singing style - and how you hold the mic in relation to your mouth, one is better than the other. Most all will show you the 'cardiod' pattern. This gives you a better idea how well it picks up, or keeps out, sound from around the microphone.

[drlowlow]

A couple hundred dollars? you can get them between 80 to 100. I recomended the Shure SM58 because it is a time tested great vocal microphone that will last years. I am sure there are other microphones that will work for you. Dynamic refers to how the mic operates. I looked up the amp that you are discussing and it is primarly a keyboard amp and I think it wants a line level input for the 1/4" jack(s). A higher output microphone might do the trick but I doubt it. you may need to invest in some kind of preamp to really make it work. You might find some strange solutions to make it all work for you which if you don't have the money to spend might be the only way. I've used compressor pedals before as a makeshift pre-amp (didn't like the sound all that much but it worked). Of course I think it only saved me money because I already had the pedal.

Keep an eye on the used section of the independantly owned music stores around you for quality used gear. sometimes you can get good deals and there are always something floating around.

The bottom line is that with some rigging you MIGHT be able to make the amp work for you but for your situation I think a dedicated PA amp is a better solution.

[mattie5960]

I was looking at pa systems yesterday but I have no idea how many watts I will need to perform in front of smaller audiences say at coffee shops or open mic night type places. It seems that all the amps are categorized by how many watts they have. How many watts would you recommend?

[ricach]

The rated watts on solid-state amps cannot be compared apples to apples with other manufacturers. They all have there own way of determining wattage and you can only use it to compare within manufacturers own products. With that said, I think anything available in professional quality PA systems will handle what you need it to. Go for the features you think you'll want - like built in digital fx - for the money you can spend.

[mattie5960]

So basically, I could get a 120 watt amp made for enhancing vocal volume, and run that into a couple speakers and be better off than I am now?

[ricach]

Since you are looking into real PA systems, is there the option to return the keyboard/pa amp? If so, I think you can do better for the money. It really is better if you have a system where you can get the speaker up just above the audience (on a stand) so that a little volume will travel a long way. Unless you plan to run stereo (which means you need to make sure you buy a stereo PA) one speaker works well in small venues.

[mattie5960]

Well I told my parents to keep the box and everything it came in so that we could return it if we wanted to however I'm not sure if actually sending it back is an option. My dad got it from musiciansfriend.com and we've never bought anything there before so we don't know.

If it's possible, i'm thinking about sending it back and getting something more like this. What do you think? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...tem?sku=630260

[ricach]

Well, he probably got free shipping, but when you return things, you not only pay for the return shipping, but also the value of the 'free' shipping. That can run you as much as $50 - that's alot to pay for nothing in the end.

Not sure what to tell you, you can definately make this work for you, but I can guarantee that you'll grow out of it very quickly. Also, buying the few things you'll need to make it work - the xformer adapter, or cable - could run you $25. Money you wouldn't have to spend with a different system. Tough decision.

But you do need a better microphone no matter what system you go with.