behringer sps1000/02 board in pmp5000 and pmp3000

[Mang_MN]

I am trying to seperate the PMP5000 AMP and Mixer. There are 6 wires running from the mixer and the Behringer SPS1000/02 board. Does anyone has a schematic or know ledge of these wires? i need voltage and what are those wires for. I know for sure that 1 of them is a ground and the other is a power supply for the mixer. so what are the other 4? Please help. I would greatly appreciated if you could email me at Mang@vnsba.com. Lots of thanks.

[Enzo]

There is a 6-wire cable from the power supply to the mixer:

1. +15VDC
2. -15VDC
3. A Ground (ground for all analog circuits)
4. +48VDC
5. +5VDC
6. C Ground (ground for digital circuits)

That should be sufficient to operate the mixer.

Is your HCA2400 blown up? You have to disconnect not only the heavy main power wires to the powr amp, but also the small 6 pin connector. The small 6 pin connector on the power amp will shut down the power supply if it does not detect proper operation of the powr amp otherwise.

[Mang_MN]

very useful info but...

Thank you Enzo for the very useful information. But i came to a problem which I have no knowledge of solving. how do you get a -15v? a usual power supply provide +v and a - is also known as Ground. do you know any cheap way of optaining this power supply that can give sufficient voltage to power this mixer?

one other thing.
do you think it is feasible or safely for these 6 pins be run over a 100 feet snake cable with 5.5 ohm resistance? i am just too afraid it might fail or worst burn the mixer in the middle of a show.

Thank you for the info provided though.

Mang

[Enzo]

Um...

Look at a battery - it has a + and a - end. If I ground the - end, then the free end is a + supply. If I ground the + end, then the free end is a - supply. The - is NOT the same thing as ground. Very often the - end of a single supply is connected to ground, but only if it is a + supply. Most analog stuff has two supplies, one + and one -.

There are TWO 15v power sources in that power supply. Pin 3 is the ground. Pin 1 is the +15 and pin 2 is the -15. There would therefore be 30v between pins 1 and 2. Just as if you had two batteries, one wired each direction.

When you started the thread wanting to separate the powr amps and mixer, I had assumed you had something like a blown up power amp and still wanted to use the mixer part. If you are planning to try to remote the mixer part from the rest, I wouldn't recommend it, and especially by running that poor power supply up a snake. For that, I'd want a new power supply just for the mixer, and located right by or in the mixer.


Getting the signals from the mixer back to the power amps is a whole separate issue.

[Mang_MN]

good point.

Thanks Enzo for the opinion.

At first I was planning to do that because i want to save some money from buying a new power amp. The reason is you can mix better if you can sit a bit far back from the stage. I guess I'll save up 400 bucks for the Tapco J2500 then .

You have been very knowledgeful and helpful, Enzo. Thank you very much.

[fredy2]

Longer speaker leads?

Why not use longer speaker leads if you want to move the thing away from the stage? You can extend the leads a LONG way if you use heavy wire. Don't waste money on Monster cable if you want to go say 200 feet. Just get some #6 or #8 standard stranded wire from your electrical supply house and twist two together for the run. The twisting IS important as it reduces inductance and magnetic field radiation that could couple into other audio systems.

If you just want the preamp you could put dummy load resistors on the amp output and use the whole amp as a preamp/mixer.

I am currently looking for a schematic for the unit. The power supply popped a few components and I have traced out some of it.

The supply actually is two supplies. There is a small switcher that comes up first. Two power resistors start charging the main power amp portion and when those get stable, the power resistors that limit inrush are shorted by a relay.

[saranden]

I have a Behringer PMP 5000 which keeps tripping off. It can happen after 1 minute, or it can happen after20 minutes...any thoughts. I am an amateur...but I can follow the circuit diagram an test components...so any help would be great. I don't want to bin it, or give it away. Saranden.

[Enzo]

You'll have to decide if it is the SMPS itself or something loading it.

I would disconnect the two power amp three-wire power cables from the PS. There is also a smaller 6-wire cable to the power amp. You must disconnect that as well, or the power amp will send a shut down signal. Now operate the unit as just a mixer. If it still drops out, then the SMPS must have a fault, but if it runs steady, then we suspect a power amp.

[saranden]

Hello Enzo. Thank you for your such prompt reply. I swear to God, I understood everything you said, apart from the SMPS....I can only assume that it is (Something-something- Power supply. What do the first 2 initials **PS stand for? Regards and grateful ....Saranden

[Enzo]

I am sorry. SMPS - switch-mode power supply. SMPS is easier to type on my keyboard. We sometimes call them "switchers." Switchers are an ever more common alternative to the age old linear power supply, the kind with the big heavy transformer and the large filter caps.

PS just is short for Power Supply of any sort. And PA will mean Power amp. PA also can mean Public Address System, but you can tell from context which we mean

[zero cool]

I have the schematics. email me. but be advised. if you are asking about what a -15V supply is. your not ready to to this work.




The PMP3000 and 5000 series units have a problem with the amp board layout. due to the bad board layout, arcing across the leads of some of the components can cause the amp board to fail which then can cause the power supply to fail.

The ACTUAL cause that starts the problem is insulation breakdown of the circuit trace between the three drain leads of the rear-most amp and the source lead trace of the T20 and T21 pair of MOSFET's. The resulting breakdown burns the board and the traces and fries the three switching transistors in the power amp plus many other parts.

The arcing carbonizes the PCB making it less resistive and easier for arcs to happen. it can literally burn a conductive tunnel through the board layers.

The arcing happens BETWEEN the circuit board layers and is often times not easily visible and other times is easy to see. you will need to grind out the cancer with a dremel tool. use Clear epoxy over the area. The drains of the 9640's will need to be drilled out and the replacement transistor drains left full length and sleeved.

Since grinding removed the source tie trace between the 9640's, hardwire with hookup wire.

Since the grinding removed ALL the drain connections of the 3 switching transistors, these need to be hardwired between them. A hardwire connection will also need to be made to the drain of the single transistor to connect it to the toroid inductor lead closest to it.

Next, the 30 milliohm metering resistor on the bottom side will need to be checked and replaced if they have disintegrated.

An 18 volt, 500mw Zener diode (surface mount) will need to be checked and replaced if it is shorted. This is part of the gate drive to one of the 9640's.

all other parts will need to be checked and replaced as necessarily.

Most of this text was taken from a write up a guy did over at diyaudio.com he did a nice long write up of the problem and the cure but that is the basics of it.

These models are flawed. simply replacing the parts may make the unit run. but they will blow up again. the switching IGBT devices in the power supply are expensive and easy to damage. this is a repair only for skilled techs.


Zc

[zero cool]

someone send me a private PM but it is gone, please resend your email

[saranden]

Behringer PMP5000 tripping

Hi Enzo. As I said in my first thread, I have some knowledge of electronics and have always been interested with it since I was 8 or 9, I'm know 50, retired through health so as a hobby, I will buy something with a fault, then see how I go from there. I have successfully repaired half a dozen Marshall amps, learning more along the way....my neighbour is an electronics engineer, but gave it up to start his own business in PAPER!!!!! but I like to do this on my own.
Now then, I disconnected both of the power leads and the 6 pin connector, the unit comes on (no effects unit display!) for 10 minutes, then trips. After leaving it off for 1 minute it trips quite quickly....about 5 seconds. Where would I start in the first line to detect the fault in the SMPS. I managed to get a diagram for "SPS1000 Schematic Main" which although I think is not the same...it is giving me a good idea of electron traffic!!

[saranden]

Hello Zero Cool. Do you have a schematic for a PMP1000, I have one for the PMH1000 but it is very different, the pmh is 400w and the pmp is 500w.
The smps on this is repairedand is sending 100v to the power amp.....the power amp is coming in with good audio which lasts for about 10 seconds, then starts to fade out into a very quiet and distant distortion. If I turn the power off, and then turn it back on after 10 seconds, it will do the same again. I am going to change the 4 mosfets (IRF9640 x2 and IRF640 x2) one of the 640's has shorted, so as they are so cheap, I thought I would change all four. If you have the schematics I would appreciate receipt of them at saranden@yahoo.co.uk and any

[Mike-]

Can I remove the HCA2400 and use an external power amp while making the repair?