Are you kidding me!? Really!?

[Steve Conner]

Take Marshall. He copied the Fender Bass man Amp. By all rights he violated Fender's rights. But he was smart enough to change the preamp tube from a 12AY7 to a 12AX7, plus change the mixing resistor from 270k to 470k. And then charge a small fortune for it. Claiming 45 watts of power. Yes it is, RMS, not brute power.

It was still cheaper to buy in the UK than an imported Fender: the only reason he started making them. He also changed the power tubes to KT66s and added two honking big speaker cabinets with closed backs. The rest is history.

they are going to give a little and take a lot...
before I knew it, I was paddling the same lie.

You mean, WE are going to give a little and take a lot. I work in the industry too and have bills to pay. If you want to bitch about something, take it to the Parking Lot/Soap Box forums on this site.

[dai h.]

AFAIK, the very earliest were 6L6, and the 270k were retained for a while (270k is seen in some of the 100 watters). Also, it was a couple of guys Jim M. knew who decided to clone the Fender (one worked for him). They were the ones who had the electronics background (ham radio) and not Jim M.(he was the one with the capitol and the music stores).

[MWJB]

"We get screwed by these manufactures into thinking we are getting our monies worth. It is not until you get into the game that you discover that it is fake."

Ivey, I think you got the wrong end of the stick...my point was that the Fenders in question use 2x 25-29W tubes (never seen exact specs for the 5881WXT, but going by typical current production 6L6GC ratings) and the amps DO deliver that power as clean usable wattage.

There are amps that get more than 18W out of 2xEL84 but they tend to be on the overly clean/sterile side for many players. Just because popular amps don't realise their full power potential doesn't necessarily mean that the tubes can't, in an amp designed to do so....whether anyone would buy the said amp is another matter. This is true for most tube types, the majority of guitar amp designers run them below practical max in the interests of what they perceive to be "tone". So, as long as your particular amp is deemed not to be overstressing the tubes in it, a lower W rated tube isn't necessarily a bad thing, if you like the sound of it & it is reliable. Getting back to the original post, Eurotubes have a lot of hands on experience and like other vendors, sell pre selected/graded tubes for certain amps/applications.

EL84s are pretty cheap anyway.

Ditto what Steve says, Marshall was seeking a more affordable option for the UK, not seeking to push up the price due to any perceived sense of provenance. I'm sure it would have been Western Electric AT&T that would have felt their rights were violated...it was their design, licenced to & honed by Leo.

[ivey]

Monel is cheap, not like before. The Russians have been flooding the market with monel from their decommission submarine fleet. And we will be following their lead.

We built this huge atomic waste dump in Nevada, I install the security system in it, in 1991 and again on the final level in 1998. We can not allow those nuclear vessels to rust away in salt water and spill toxic nuclear waste into our food chain. We will remove the nuclear sections of those vessels and store them in that dump. Seal them and fill them with water to reduce the neutron and gamma radiation and weld seal it again. They will stay there forever or until we figure out a way to neturalize the radiation or rocket it into space towards the sun.

Monel have good properties, but it is hard, very hard. High temp, high strength, and almost no corrosion. Outside of sea water.

I like the idea of using Monel, because building bigger tubes means more power, which last a lot longer.

Coating was used in the old days and still used today, but it is a costly action, with tube sells no where near what it was in the 1950's, 1960,s or even in the 1980's. Besides the coating breaks down with heat and destroys the vacuum.

People have move on into the smt phases of their lives. Cell phones are king, with yuppies, kids, teenagers, cheating spouses, you name it. "If I can not record it on my DVR, it is not worth watching". That's my wife talking.

Take Care

Ivey

[greekie]

That is very exciting! I love the back story Ivey!

[Alex R]

I still say they look like Tesla EL83 reissues.

Nice to have you aboard Ivey.

[ivey]

Alex:

In all my days, I never seen a EL83. I got to look that up.

Man..., am I dumb or what.

Ivey

[Alex R]

What, I reckon.

[ivey]

Alex: By God, I think you hit the nail with the blasted hammer Mate.

Yes; if they are trying to pass off the EL83's, as EL84's.

I made a phone call to a friend of mind, living and working outside of Boston. A big dealer in surplus junk, and he is really into military surplus junk. And he told me that warehouses in Florida, have obtained thousands of EL83 tube from the Ivory Coast area.

The Ivory Coast! Why the Ivory Coast, I ask. And he told me that the Brits and Europe are sending all of their trash to Africa for disposal.

The tubes are old military units. The reason I never heard of them is because I never worked with them when I did jobs for our military. They can be used. I do not know if they are wired the same, JJ could have gotten their hands of those as well and are remarking them. In any case, if they are NOS. Those are good tubes. But of lesser output.

Take Care


Ivey

[Alex R]

Steady, Ivey.

[ivey]

I never stopped to think that those old tubes would still be around. I assumed from the post, that JJ had designed a NEW tube. But if they are stuffing new bottles with old inners and wirng them up as EL84's. That's a SCAM!

But it would be a profit windfall if they could sell the SCAM, and pretend that they created a new, different, if not, improved EL84. It would a feather in their hat.

I will check to see if the two tubes use the same basing. And if they are the same, they could just merely remark the units.

A good heads up..., Alex!

Take Care

Ivey

[MWJB]

"But if they are stuffing new bottles with old inners and wirng them up as EL84's. That's a SCAM!"

That's quite an "if"? In fact there's quite a lot of "ifs" in your post... more facts, less speculation please. You seem to have a pretty dim view of the outside world Ivey...is it just possible...I mean only just... that JJ are actually a tube manufacturer responding to market forces? But I guess there's no "story" in that ;-)

[Steve Conner]

Well, JJ are essentially the old Tesla. So maybe they still had tooling to make Tesla EL83s, or even a heap of old EL83 plates, and just tweaked the recipe slightly to make their new EL844.

But that's a long way from pulling old ones out of a scrap heap in Africa and remarking them, which I don't believe for a picosecond. (That would be a "micromicrosecond" for you, Grandpa.)

[Wilder Amplification]

JJ and Tesla are two different companies. The JJ/Tesla or Tesla/JJ moniker is an internet fallacy.

As I understand it, back in the 90's Tesla got out of the audio market as it became non-profitable for them. When they did they sold off all their old audio valve tooling to JJ, which got moved into the JJ factory.

This was the ONLY business transistion that ever existed between Tesla and JJ. JJ didn't buy out the Tesla company...they simply purchased their audio valve tooling/machinery. But they are and always have been two separate companies. Neither is affiliated with the other.

[Alex R]

Yes, the issue being whether this new valve is actually made on the Tesla EL83 tooling with a new number stamped on it. Not that I have a problem with badge engineering particularly, but Eurotubes might be overegging their marketing a wee bit with their 'we asked JJ for a browner creamier tube' malarkey.

As to the Ivory Coast issue - look at this!



Clearly this is the bulk vacuum tube freighter SS Koala, deliberately beached on the Ivory Coast coast! Full of EL83s no doubt!