Screaming Leads, harmonics etc... Problem

[J M Fahey]

And you are still missing a few numbers in that equation.
A classic Telecaster is not exactly the guitar indicated for soaring Metal leads:
* weak pickup (compared to humbuckers)
* single coil
* relatively light body (damps sustain)
* relatively light bridge (same)
* bolt on neck vs *solid* glued on (same)
* not sure about what string gauge you are using, but heavier is better (more metal mass, higher tension "spring" keeps vibration going on for longer time)
Of course, adding tons of gain through a distortion pedal will compensate most of those problems, but then, unsurprisingly, sound will be "too compressed" , itīs artificial sustain vs natural one.

[Justin Thomas]

I read this somewhere, and tried it myself: "If you make ANYthing loud enough, eventually it'll sound like a Les Paul..." - Jimmy Page -

Oh, wait, did somebody already mention volume being an issue? Nevermind...

On the other hand, magic trick for Teles: 4-way Switch.

Justin

[Rattler66]

Excellent! Thanks for the compliments. I had some good mentors. It must be the extra amp gain from cranking the midrange. Reducing the midrange became more common when high gain preamps and the cutting scooped Metal sound became popular. I think it is somewhat changing back in Metal.
Your DSL pedal may also have an internal Presence trim set @12 o'clock by default. The is no indication in the manual that it is a high end neg feedback circuit as in a real amp, so it won't open the gain envelope. The manual indicates that it's a 3kHz centered boost located after the drive stages, so it will increase the edge for a harder attack sound without generating more harmonics. A Treble and/or slight midrange knob reduction would then decrease the generated high end harmonics for a more creamy sound without loss of definition. The default setting might be fine with your amp settings.

Next thing is to experiment with a low capacitance cable for a more open bell-like high end. I generally recommend getting both a 6' (~160pF) & 10' (~260pF) Rapco 'G1' series to try out. That's 25pF/foot + ~10F for the plugs.

I also have some ideas for diode clipping pedals using Shotkky diodes with a pot to adjust the gain envelope, possible Op Amp "hot" bias adjustment with a better chip, and opening the Tone knob Low Pass filter up for a Germanium to tube-like sound. You should be able turn a cheap diode/Op Amp pedal into real gem with some cheap fixes. BYOC applies some of that in the new 'Green Pony' Pedal kit. I might experiment with this in future.

BTW, love to hear demo of your setup at some point. Even a video made with a recent smart phone should be good, as the newer MEMS mics in them have excellent sound quality.

I'll see if i can throw together a small demo later today and post it. Funny you mention the Green pony, I have a few BYOC pedals and was having a chat with them and the Green Pony came up as possible way of achieving that Marshall in a box tone.

[Rattler66]

And you are still missing a few numbers in that equation.
A classic Telecaster is not exactly the guitar indicated for soaring Metal leads:
* weak pickup (compared to humbuckers)
* single coil
* relatively light body (damps sustain)
* relatively light bridge (same)
* bolt on neck vs *solid* glued on (same)
* not sure about what string gauge you are using, but heavier is better (more metal mass, higher tension "spring" keeps vibration going on for longer time)
Of course, adding tons of gain through a distortion pedal will compensate most of those problems, but then, unsurprisingly, sound will be "too compressed" , itīs artificial sustain vs natural one.

I agree. I was getting the sustain and crunch i wanted with a BYOC Rat Clone BUT it was super compressed. That's why i was hoping to get there with an Marshall type pedal. And I did. But yeah i'm looking to get a more Rock specific guitar ala. Charvel San Dimas or EVH Striped

[Rattler66]

I read this somewhere, and tried it myself: "If you make ANYthing loud enough, eventually it'll sound like a Les Paul..." - Jimmy Page -

Oh, wait, did somebody already mention volume being an issue? Nevermind...

On the other hand, magic trick for Teles: 4-way Switch.

Justin

The only "mod" i did was change to modern wiring, I wanted to keep it stock. Yeah my amp all cranked can get some decent crunch for chords but for leads it's not a high gain amp and needed to be boosted. It's more a vintage type i would say

[Fluoroscope 5000]

The ~2.3H inductance Nocaster neck pickup is probably just fine and bell-like with an average 12' ~400pF cable b4 the first preamp stage, but the ~3.7H bridge pickup may produce a rather piercing sound as the resonance is down in the ~3.5kHz "ice pick" zone, assuming 250k pots and 1M Ohm input. I have a similar Wilde 3.6H L280SL Strat pickup with a copper base plate that benefits greatly from a ~200pF cable. It's more open and sweeter with good definition...really just perfect with that value, and very versatile. ~200pF 6'~8'cables were the norm b4 the mid 60's coiled stage cables became popular, so a "vintage correct" sound with your Nocaster requires such a cable capacitance value. Fender pickup inductance & cable capacitance values were specifically coordinated for the Hi-Z Fender amps being developed. Changing any one of those factors just sullies the intended result. If you don't have one, order the two Rapco "G1" cables I recommended and see which you prefer. I'd probably go with the 6', but it's your call. I actually went through this with another Tele player at the Scuffham forums. He preferred the 10' cable...it's all good. You'll probably notice a more sensitive dynamic quality on the bridge pickup, especially when playing finger-style, and tone knob changes will be more effective.

There's no reason you can't play many styles of music on a Tele. Many Rock and Metal players actually use Tele's now. The body may or may not damp much depending on the weight and wood integrity. Bolt-on necks actually damp less than a glue-in due to increased coupling force. Mahogany glue-in necks may sound like they have more sustain because there normally isn't as much high end to die out as with a hard Maple neck. The thicker body of a Les Paul type does improve low end sustain, and the rearward angled neck may have some effect. I agree that a TOM style bridge damps less than a Tele bridge, but thick barrel saddles and tightened plate screws do well for sustain.

You can actually alter the sustain quality with a hard plastic bracket in the neck pocket. I cut out some 1.1mm thick Lexan brackets in a certain way for a few guitars to maximize coupling force and minimize neck damping. It improves the low end punch and high end extension a bit for a bigger sound. My brother noticed the same result with a few guitars. It won't make much difference with a harder/heavier body wood. I made a quick 2 part video showing just what I did located within this folder: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx...khoYnl3ZHVmSG8

[Fluoroscope 5000]

I read this somewhere, and tried it myself: "If you make ANYthing loud enough, eventually it'll sound like a Les Paul..." - Jimmy Page -

Oh, wait, did somebody already mention volume being an issue? Nevermind...

On the other hand, magic trick for Teles: 4-way Switch.

Justin

Agreed. That should have a big warm lead sound with the Nocaster set in series with the classic mid dip. The "HOoP" wiring with a 5-way switch is also popular for a sweet "swampy" sound without any loss of highs and the added bass cut pos for the neck.

[Justin Thomas]

Actually I may do some exploring on mine... Thanks for that site!

Justin

[Rattler66]

Finally got around to making a quick video, please forgive the sloppiness, it's my first video. thanks

https://youtu.be/ws3_3o75LNY

[Fluoroscope 5000]

Great! Nice job, playing. I have to say that the amp sound is essentially drowned out by the room reflections, and the string noise coming off the guitar makes it hard to hear the attack sound. For future reference, it's OK to use a camera mic, but the speaker should really be within ~1m of it to be able to hear the sound clearly in a really live room like that. Otherwise, glad you got the sound you like.

[Rattler66]

Great! Nice job, playing. I have to say that the amp sound is essentially drowned out by the room reflections, and the string noise coming off the guitar makes it hard to hear the attack sound. For future reference, it's OK to use a camera mic, but the speaker should really be within ~1m of it to be able to hear the sound clearly in a really live room like that. Otherwise, glad you got the sound you like.

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to try what you said. Good ears I didn't even realize the room effect