RAT question

[daz]

Here's a schematic of what i believe is a pretty common version of the RAT. I have even less understanding of SS electronics than tube so maybe someone can answer me this. I don't care a lot for RAT distortion itself, but i love the way it sounds used more as a clean boost. The RAT goes silent with the distortion knob at zero so it has to be up at least to where the tone sorta "clicks in" if u know what i mean. At that point the knob is at about 8:30 and thats where i leave it. Then he volume i turn up just to where it drives the amp into about 50% more distortion tan i have it set at. Heres the issue....i ride my guitar volume knob for scream to clean and the amp is great at that. But using the rat, even when the amp's gain is set low and the overall amount of drive is the same as where i use my amp w/o a pedal, the sound will not clean up well when rolling down the guitar volume. If you use the rat normally with it's distortion up anything higher then i use it it gets far far worse in that regard. But the way i use it it's much better, tho it still doesn't clean up well. And all my guitars DO have treble bleeds in them. Looking at the schematic can anyone tell me what i could change to make it clean up better? Thanks in advance.

[Helmholtz]

Try your TS in bypass mode before the Rat. Works great for me.
If it helps, I'll explain why.

[daz]

I really don't want to do that for several reasons but i have in the past so i know how that works. I used to do that for hyper gain especially. I got some of the best high gain solo tone i ever ad back in the 90's using a rat i made with mods and a tube screamer in front. had to use it a certain way tho, if i recall amp treble almost all the way down and rat with a tone of treble if i recall. I had it going thru the clean channel of my marshall like that for solo tones then used the dirt channel w/o the rat for main sounds. There were times i got some tones i have never before or since reached. But only for higher gain. I want to use it now very differently but it won't work aside from songs where i don't need to lower the gain at various parts for clean or semi clean.

[Helmholtz]

I said TS in bypass.
It's a test for further advice.

[daz]

Ahhh, ok.

[Helmholtz]

But it only works if your TS uses the original circuit with buffered bypass (input and output emitter followers).

[daz]

Slightly better but still not close to amp alone. I tried 2 screamers a ibanez TS7 and a behringer clone. Gotta be something in the RAT distortion circuit because the less the distortion knob is up the better it gets with respect to my issue. Maybe lowering the distortion in the circuit would do it but like i said, i'm totally lost looking at SS circuits.
EDIT: I'll try my ibanez TS5. It's the same circuit as either the TS9 or 808, i think the 9.
EDIT2: better but still no cigar. Thats ok, it's not essential, as i mainly use it as a clean lead boost which it does well but i just love the sound using it the same way but amp gain lower as a main sound. But like i said if i can't get good cleans with the guitar volume i just have to use it as boost only. I was just hoping to get my cake and eat it too but i think only a circuit change will do that if it's even possible.

[g1]

All those other pedals you mentioned, you were using them instead of the rat, or using them in bypass mode in front of the rat?

[Helmholtz]

I got my original RAT in the early 80s
Though it was an improvement over the treble booster, fuzz face, Distortion+ circuits I used before, I never really liked it.
When the TS808 came out I used that and abandoned the RAT.

Years later I tried to find out why I disliked the RAT and found that the main problem is the 1nF cap at the input to ground.
This adds to the cable capacitance and lowers the PU resonance frequency and treble response especially with guitar volume rolled back.
Problem is that the cap is necessary to stop self-oscillation of the unit.

I spent considerable time trying to find a solution that avoids the cap. In short nothing really worked.

The only thing that helped was a buffer in front of the RAT, which isolates the PUs from the 1nF cap and the low output impedance of the buffer essentially eliminates any cap effect on the signal.

So with a buffer I can use it again.

[Helmholtz]

You can increase clean headroom by replacing the diodes with red LEDs..

But remember, no pedal sounds and behaves like a good tube amp.
Otherwise no need for tube amps.

[daz]

I think i mentioned it, but It has a defeat switch that removes the diodes and thats howi use it.

[Helmholtz]

I think i mentioned it, but It has a defeat switch that removes the diodes and thats howi use it.

Well, that essentially makes it a clean booster a with treble cut control.

[Helmholtz]

The RAT goes silent with the distortion knob at zero

That's not normal. With distortion knob at zero opamp gain should be 1.

[daz]

Well, what i mean is with the volume at around 10:00 where i like it's almost silent but it's unusable till you gradually turn the distortion knob and within what would be 1 if it were 1-10 it all of a sudden kicks in with volume and at that point it's about where i use it. If i turn the distortion all the way down and volume all the way up it's almost unity gain and sounds lousy. So not actually silent but the OD knob doesn't allow the thing to be usable at any volume level till it hits that click point. Anyways, no matter.

[mozz]

You have the answer in the other forum you posted this same question.