Why are my pickups noisy?

[bhuether]

I got my guitar wired up with Dimarzio D Sonic and PAF Pro. I have the PAF Pro installed with the wires on the side towards the bridge. The D Sonic is installed with the blades facing the neck (which means the wires are coming out on the side towards the neck).

I wired it as shown in the diagram here:



Everything sounds great, but the parallel configurations are quite noisy. About as noisy as a coil cut. Also, the 5th setting (inner coils) is quite noisy. I know technically they are not inner coils because of how the pickups are placed (should I flip the neck pickup?) but since the setting has one pickup’s north coil parallel with the other pickup’s south coil, shouldn’t it still be fairly silent?

Anyway, just curious if anyone sees anything in the diagram that would explain noise… The noise is a combination of hum and static. I used a continuity tester and confirmed that everything is switching properly.

Thanks,

brian

[Robert M. Martinelli]

Anyway, just curious if anyone sees anything in the diagram that would explain noise… The noise is a combination of hum and static. I used a continuity tester and confirmed that everything is switching properly.

Thanks,

brian

Hi Brian,
I hope to remember DiMarzio's wiring color code properly, in any case it seems to me that you have some coil phase problems. Try to wire both pickups with the same colors ( coils ) doing the same thing, ( e.g. the red wire should be the "hot lead" for both pickups ) otherwise some "combination" could be no longer hum-canceling and you could also have some "sound thinning" due to "out of phase" coils.

Coil phase problems are not traceable with a DMM, as you're only measuring DC resistance, so everything could seem OK while it's not.

Hope this helps

Best regards

Bob

[bhuether]

For Dimarzio, you can use white as the hot. It doesn't amount to out of phase. Phase reversal would be using green as hot, grounding red (with black and white together) or black hot, white grounded (with red and green together).

The reason I am using red from one and white from another is that is the only way to split the coils and get hum cancellation when coming both split pickups (i.e. this amounts to using inner or outer coils). Dimarzio shows this setup here:

http://www.dimarzio.com//media/diagrams/D.pdf

thanks,

brian

[David Schwab]

The standard wiring for a DiMarzio pickup in series is:

Red=Hot
Black+White together
Green=Ground.

Parallel would be:

Red+White=Hot
Black+Green=Ground

I see you have a black wire to ground, and that's not correct. You wont be able to get the pickup in series that way.

So most likely in the parallel positions you have the pickup electrically in-phase with itself, which will make it sound thin and hum.

[David Schwab]

For Dimarzio, you can use white as the hot. It doesn't amount to out of phase. Phase reversal would be using green as hot, grounding red (with black and white together) or black hot, white grounded (with red and green together).

If you use white as hot, then you must flip the other coil around, so green and red would be together and black would be ground. You have to do that for both pickups.

If you only reverse one coil you have the pickup out-of-phase with itself.

The reason I am using red from one and white from another is that is the only way to split the coils and get hum cancellation when coming both split pickups (i.e. this amounts to using inner or outer coils). Dimarzio shows this setup here:

That's still not correct.

The way to split the coils to get hum cancelation is on the bridge pickup, connect the series link to hot, and on the neck pickup connect the series link to ground.

Here's another version of the DiMarzio wiring chart.

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Elec...-dimarzio.html

[bhuether]

The pickup actually sounds pretty decent in parallel, just noisy. I suspect in the parallel config, the red output is contributing most of the output which explains why the parallel setting is even producing a decent sound at all (and then the noise is a result of faulty south coil). Also, wiring black to ground is ok if you are using the south coil's lead as hot. In that case for series wiring, white is hot lead, red and green are connected and black is ground. It is an in phase config. Out of phase would result in swapping a positive lead for a negative (e.g. connecting white and black together, grounding red and using green as lead would be out of phase as would connecting red and green, grounding white and using black as hot). Dimarzio also shows such wiring on their site where white is lead (see here:http://www.dimarzio.com//media/diagrams/D.pdf).

In any case, my measurements definitely indicate some sort of problem with the south coil. I wired up a Steve's Special in the ToneZone's place and everything works great. I get a great, no noise parallel tone! I can't believe I have never heard a humbucker in parallel - despite somewhat lower output, the harmonics are so rich and smooth)

Dimarzio said for me to send the ToneZone in for repair. I have no idea if it went defective recently or if it has always been like this. Til now I have only ran it in series. So maybe all along when I have been running it in series I have effectively only been hearing contribution mainly from the north coil. Definitely can't wait to get it back in working condition and retest!

later,

brian

[bhuether]

Regarding this,

"You have to do that for both pickups."

I don't believe that is correct. I believe out of phase issues only arise when you connect a negative lead where you would otherwise connect a positive.

Not sure what you mean by getting coil cut to be hum cancelling. But hum cancelling (non series hum cancelling, that is) amounts to having a north coil being in parallel with a south coil. For a single humbucker that cancels hum and so when wiring two humbuckers, having north from one parallel with south from another cancels hum.

Maybe we are saying the same thing in different words. I do know that when I wire things in this way I get expected results with no phase or other oddities.

thanks,

brian

[David Schwab]

The pickup actually sounds pretty decent in parallel, just noisy. I suspect in the parallel config, the red output is contributing most of the output...

Parallel should be just as quiet as series. Why is the red contributing most of the output? The two coils are would with roughly the same number of turns, even though they don't read the same on a meter. This is because they are would with different gauge wire. The thinner gauge has a higher resistance per foot.

Regarding this,

"You have to do that for both pickups."

I don't believe that is correct. I believe out of phase issues only arise when you connect a negative lead where you would otherwise connect a positive.

You can wire the two coils on a humbucker to be out of phase with itself. This is actually electrically in phase, but because each coil has an opposite magnetic polarity, the resulting tone will be very thin, and the pickup will hum.

Phase issues between two humbuckers also arise if you flip the magnet around on one pickup. And if you wire the coils backwards, the resulting composite signal will be out of phase with the other pickup.

Try it and see.

Not sure what you mean by getting coil cut to be hum cancelling. But hum cancelling (non series hum cancelling, that is) amounts to having a north coil being in parallel with a south coil. For a single humbucker that cancels hum and so when wiring two humbuckers, having north from one parallel with south from another cancels hum.

I know how humbuckers work. To get the two pickups to hum cancle with each other when one coil is turned off you need the opposite coil in each pickup, as long as those coils are opposite magnetic polarity, and wired out-of-phase with each other.

Maybe we are saying the same thing in different words. I do know that when I wire things in this way I get expected results with no phase or other oddities.

Maybe we are, but as I said your wiring has issues just from the fact that the neck pickup has the black wire to ground and the white wire to hot, then on the other pickup you have the green wire to ground the the red to hot, so those two pickups are out of phase with each other.

I haven't gone through your entire schematic, but I do see the two pickups being out of phase. You shouldn't be getting any hum.

But the basic idea should work, because this is how I wire my pickups, except I use two switches. See the attached diagram.

You have all your bare wires grounded, right?

[bhuether]

Dimarzio is having me send the pickup in for repair.

I'll have to analyze more closely what you are saying, but I am nearly positive (perhaps 75% sure...) that having one pickup with red lead and other with white is in phase. Dimarzio tech had looked over my diagram and thought it was ok and that the two picklups don't have to be wired the same way in series or parallel. All I know is that in the switch position that has the two humbuckers in series in parallel with one another, the sound is not thin. Sounds as expected (i.e. sounds like it does when both are wired with red lead as hot). And now that I have swapped out the bad humbucker, the noisy parallel bridge humbucker is dead quiet.

All bare wires are grounded.

I just redid another of my guitars to have this wiring and I really like it! I suppose it would be better to use separate switches for the bridge and neck but that 4 pole switch is really handy!

thanks,

brian

[David Schwab]

Dimarzio is having me send the pickup in for repair.

I'll have to analyze more closely what you are saying, but I am nearly positive (perhaps 75% sure...) that having one pickup with red lead and other with white is in phase.

Red is the start of the one coil, while white is the finish of the other coil, so it may be in phase if black is ground. I'd have to draw it out and look at the magnet polarity also.

But if you imagine my wiring on a 4 pole double throw on-on-on switch, instead of two switches, you can see that you don't need to wire them up that way. Red can be hot on both pickups.

[bhuether]

But when you have the switch in coil cut position for both pickups and comine them in parallel, wouldn't you get hum?

[David Schwab]

But when you have the switch in coil cut position for both pickups and comine them in parallel, wouldn't you get hum?

No because when they are in single coil mode is uses the outside coil of each pickup.

[bhuether]

So are you saying that even though you are using the same coil from each pickup, that you have one oriented differently on the guitar and that this orientation allows for the coils to cancel hum? I had thought that hum cancelling was an electrical effect and that regardless of pickup orientation, electrical polarities don't change. Can you point me to a good website that talks about all this stuff. I thought I understood how and when hum cancelling occurs but I am just not sure now...

thanks,

brian

[David Schwab]

So are you saying that even though you are using the same coil from each pickup...

No, the outside two coils, that's South at the neck and North at the bridge.

At least the way I make them.

[bhuether]

Ok, so you are saying one north coil has a red lead and the other pickup's south coil has red lead as well? Because in your switch diagram it shows that in the coil cut position, both pickups have red lead.

So you make your own pickups, huh? I can't imagine what that would entail as far as deciding on which materials are needed to achieve one's sonic/tonal goals...

thanks,

brian