50s Wiring for Epiphone and Gibson

[ReginaldBisquet]

I was reading about 50s v. Modern style wiring in guitars and thought it would be a neat experiment to see what my Epiphone Les Paul would sound like using the 50s style wiring. As most of you know, it’s a very simple mod with some complex results. So imagine my surprise/dismay when I opened up the back cavity and found this:



Jumpin Gehosafats! How am I supposed to do this:



… with the wiring nest in my guitar?!? Looks like there are .022 uf caps across the tone controls. And it looks like there are extra ground wires all over the place. But holy smokes… what a mess.

I opened up the back of my Gibson SG Special Faded and found a much more user friendly cavity:



Ahhhh, so nice and clean. But wait... mine is from 2005. A good friend of mine has a 2009 Gibson SG Special Faded and his control cavity looks like this:



What a contrast. Makes modifying your instrument an interesting challenge. It’s nice in that the board is labeled for ground and components (like a regular circuit board). Has anyone worked on one of these boards? Is it easier / less messy than the traditional wiring system?

Nonetheless, I decided to try the 50s style wiring on my Gibson SG Special Faded and here are my final results:



Bridge controls: This was bright originally, so I wanted to increase the capacitor to a .047 uf. A buddy had a spare “orange drop” in .047 uf, so I gave it a shot. I went ahead and wired in the new capacitor as per the 50s style. The end result – it’s still bright yet it retains the brightness as I roll back the volume. Interesting effect. I like it! I wonder what would happen if I placed the .047 uf capacitor back to the modern wiring position.

Neck controls: This was too bright in the 50s style wiring mode. Didn’t like it at all. Put the .022 uf capacitor back to modern style. The deep resonant tone has returned. In a Les Paul, I can see where the slightly brighter 50s wiring would be ideal as several Les Paul's I've heard have a darker tone.

Questions: What on earth can I do to wire up the Epiphone Les Paul for 50s style? Should I gut it and re-wire everything or do I just move the .022 uf capacitor that’s soldered across the tone controls to a 50s style connection?

[JHow]

I feel your pain. I did the 50's tone circuit on my epiphone LP custom (circa 2006 I think). I don't know if I have my notes for it, and yours looks a litle different from mine (like you have red and white wires from pickups tied together - not sure what that is - maybe just extra wires), but what I did was to diagram my own schematic of the orginal circuit, noting wire colors and junctions, jacks, etc. Then I plotted the 50's mod on paper and figured out what color wire to move where. It looks daunting, but actually, it's not that complicated a circuit. I do remember that I used a simpler way to ground everything with buss wire. I can certainly provide a picture of mine later today. Oh yes, and I had a noisy pot, so I actually replaced the pots, I forgot about that. Anyway, I'll try to send picture tonight.

It did cross my mind, depending on your soldering skills, you might be able to change your pickup wire to the orginal style shielding, but that seemed like a lot of delicate work to me, plus there is that little connector in there from the switch that is useful and that I kept in the final set up.

[ReginaldBisquet]

My soldering skills are decent. I've repaired speakers and worked on amps and stuff. I also installed the orange drop cap in the SG. So I can do the changes. Your diagrams would be really helpful!

The pickups in the Les Paul were not installed by me. They are Seymour Duncan JB humbuckers. I just downloaded the wiring schem for Seymour Duncan pickups and now I understand why there are so many wires all over the place. Each pickup has five wires coming out of it! Have a look - if you're so inclined - at a wire schem from Seymour (2 hum, 2 vol, 2 tone, 3 way).

So... to achieve a 50s style control system, should I simply move the capacitor connection from the top of the tone controls to the middle lug of the volume pots?

Another question - has anyone ever worked on the new Gibson control boards as shown in the other SG?

I feel your pain. I did the 50's tone circuit on my epiphone LP custom (circa 2006 I think). I don't know if I have my notes for it, and yours looks a litle different from mine (like you have red and white wires from pickups tied together - not sure what that is - maybe just extra wires), but what I did was to diagram my own schematic of the orginal circuit, noting wire colors and junctions, jacks, etc. Then I plotted the 50's mod on paper and figured out what color wire to move where. It looks daunting, but actually, it's not that complicated a circuit. I do remember that I used a simpler way to ground everything with buss wire. I can certainly provide a picture of mine later today. Oh yes, and I had a noisy pot, so I actually replaced the pots, I forgot about that. Anyway, I'll try to send picture tonight.

It did cross my mind, depending on your soldering skills, you might be able to change your pickup wire to the orginal style shielding, but that seemed like a lot of delicate work to me, plus there is that little connector in there from the switch that is useful and that I kept in the final set up.

[JHow]

Okay, so I found my notes and here is what I got for the orginal wiring.

[JHow]

And here is how I did the 50's style wiring. This should give you enough of an idea to work out your own color scheme. The only other detail is that I ran a "U" shaped buss wire across the pots for common ground, rather than the orginal black wire, also the drawing doesn't show the black ground from the bridge, but obviously, you need to include it on one of your ground points.

[ReginaldBisquet]

Interesting. So it's not as simple as moving one of the legs of the .022 uf capacitor from the top of the tone pot to the middle lug of the volume pot?

And here is how I did the 50's style wiring. This should give you enough of an idea to work out your own color scheme. The only other detail is that I ran a "U" shaped buss wire across the pots for common ground, rather than the orginal black wire, also the drawing doesn't show the black ground from the bridge, but obviously, you need to include it on one of your ground points.

[JHow]

No, it's more than moving just the capacitor, because in the orginal, the top of the volume pot and the top of the tone pot are tied together (in the example of your photo look at the red/white lead on the top two pots). They are parallel. The 50's mod is placing the tone control after the volume pot, so you have to remove one wire, in addition to moving the capacitor.

That's why I drew the electrical schematic, so I could see how the circuits differ. Also, so I could put it back the way it was orginally if I needed. I actually like the new set up, so I don't plan to change it back.

[ReginaldBisquet]

I see it now! I wasn't sure how those wires "connected" with the rest of the controls... but now it makes sense. Seems like a lot of work (and extra wires) for achieving the same effect. Perhaps the humbucker controls in parallel give the guitar a smoother tone?

None the less, I'm on the hunt (locally) for some silver mica capacitors to experiment with on the tones of this guitar.

No, it's more than moving just the capacitor, because in the orginal, the top of the volume pot and the top of the tone pot are tied together (in the example of your photo look at the red/white lead on the top two pots). They are parallel. The 50's mod is placing the tone control after the volume pot, so you have to remove one wire, in addition to moving the capacitor.

That's why I drew the electrical schematic, so I could see how the circuits differ. Also, so I could put it back the way it was orginally if I needed. I actually like the new set up, so I don't plan to change it back.

[JHow]

one other thing I forgot to mention.

Since I also replaced the pots, I used a piece of cardboard to make a template for soldering. I cut holes to match the pot holes in the guitar and positioned the pots in their relative positions in the cardboard, then I mounted the caps and ground buss wiring - all out of the guitar. Only at the last step did I solder in the pickup connections and install the pots back in the guitar, covering the guitar body with shop cloth.

Just techniques to keep hot solder away from the guitar finish.

[axpro]

Seems both of your "messy wiring" examples are using aftermarket pickups, or at least 4 wire pickups. wiring tends to be messier on those from the factory in my experience (don't have any idea why, just always is!) or if it is aftermarket, someone didn't do a neat and tidy job!

As to working on the "new" gibson control boards, i have been lucky enough that customers purchasing the new gibsons seem to like them stock (so far) so i have been lucky. Problem is, with the new lp standard ones, with board mount bourns pots, to change stuff (like add a pull pot or something) you pretty much have to do EVERYTHING. more work, and when you get a tech to do it for you, way more money. When the first "metal kid" comes into the shop and just wants 1m pots for the volume controls, I imagine it will be heartbreaking to know he needs a new harness. and will cost far more as well.


Hey Jhow, what did you think of the difference???... I have an epi lp that gets no love, maybe i'll rewire it!

[JHow]

I like it. I feel I get more range out of the tone control, even with lower volume.

I am using the Epiphone with a vox "ac4" home brew (ef86 - ecc83 trem -el84), it has fair bit of gain on the preamp and I like to clean it up with the guitar volume knobs.

Also, one of the original pots was scratchy (and no, I didn't have DC on my guitar), and in general, the soldering was bad, including cold, weak joint on jack, so I needed to work on it regardless, so it seemed like good opportunity to play with the tone controls. Also, its not like epiphones are collector's items!

[ReginaldBisquet]

I opened up the cavity of the Epiphone G-400 and found this:



The light blue shielded wires are from the pickups which are BG Pickups Pure 90s (humbucker sized P-90s). The rest is typical Epiphone wiring. I decided to explore the G-400 as the humbucker sized P-90s were too bright for my taste and I thought I would see what cap values were installed. When I peered inside, I noticed the caps were .022 uf.

Decided to change out the caps and (just for the heck of it) try out the 50s style wiring. Here's what I ended up with:



Removed a few wires for a 50s style wiring design. Used a .047 uf Radio Shack capacitor for the bridge tone circuit... but decided to not use a capacitor at all on the neck circuit.

Verdict: The Humbucker-sized P-90s sounds raw and gnarly with the 50s style wiring and the .047 uf capacitor. The tone from the bridge pickup is much improved to a raw, snarl with note articulation. The painful brightness is gone. Whether this is a result of the 50s style wiring or the .047 capacitor... I don't know. But the combination works.

The neck pickup without the capacitor installed sounds nice and clear from level 2 to 10... but the tone control doesn't do anything, which I expected since the only wire connected it is the ground wire. No woman tone options here! I'm thinking of adding a low value capacitor (.015?) just so I can get back someone of that deep neck P90 resonance again.

[ReginaldBisquet]

Here's a quick photo of the Epiphone Les Paul using the 50s style wiring circuit.



The pickups are Seymour Duncan JBs. Lots of extra wires flowing from these things. I'm getting a lot of buzz/hum from the guitar when I turn the tone knob down... but not when the tone knob is all the way up. What's not grounded here?

[JHow]

Here's what I ended up with.

I forgot I used 400V sozos...kind of overkill.

I can't tell from your picture, but how's the case of the tone cap grounded?

[ReginaldBisquet]

Yeah, my capacitors are simple Radio Shack jobs. I soldered a bare wire from the middle lug of the pot to the top of the pot. Should I have used flux before soldering to the top of the pot?

Also... what are those straight bars going across each control in your photo? Looks efficient!

Here's what I ended up with.

I forgot I used 400V sozos...kind of overkill.

I can't tell from your picture, but how's the case of the tone cap grounded?