Pickups that don't respond well to volume knob cleanup...any fixes?

[daz]

Ok, i know this question will be seen as being asked by someone who doesn't know much about guitar circuitry, but let me preface it by saying i do have a lot of experience with things like this. I've done every imaginable treble bleed scenario you can probably think of for example, but this is a issue i have obly run into a few times in my life. These are the fender reissue WRHB, or "wide range humbuckers". And before you answer, note that i am well aware how crappy these sound and partially why and have modded mine as that telenator guy does by removing the bar mags and inserting A5 rods into the polepiece slots which improved them greatly. After that i found pulling 1/2 the magnets so the only ones left are the 3 under the treble strings that you see from the top and the 3 in the other coil for the bass strings. the pole holes that are only visible underneath are now empty and the pickup sounds fabulous. But in all the incarnations i've have done to it, one thing remains frustrating to me. They DO clean up with the volume knob, but VERY slowly and not as well. They barely lose gain till they get almost 1/2 way down and they clean up to the degree others do on 5 at about 2 on the volume. By then they're too weak to be usable. So it;s not just the taper. And by the way i use the same CTS 250k pots in all my guitar. Also tried 500k in this one and no joy. tried many treble bleed sceanarios and yes, i understand a TB circuit allows more gain past the volume so it will take longer to get clean in the taper, but all my other guitars have TB circuits and clean up a lot even at 7. Probably more there than the WRHB at 3 or 4.

I can't imagine any other possible solution and i'm pretty experienced and modding and wiring guitars. But thats why i came here to ask. A lot of the guys here are frigging electronic genius' in my eyes and i knew if there is a possible answer this is probably the only place i'm going to find it. have at it guys !

[eschertron]

Do your other guitars with HBs clean up the way you like in the same amp with the same amp settings as you use for this guitar?

[daz]

yes.

[Richard]

This is interesting. I would think that with an standard volume control wired as a voltage divider nearly all pickups would have similar response to rolling off the bottom. Are these pickups unusual in any way? From what I understand, the reissue is a standard Humbucker except for the 3+3 threaded polepieces. I'm curious about what causes this pickup to behave so much differently than others.

[big_teee]

What do they measure on an ohm meter.
If you changed all the pots, which sounds like you did?
Neck or bridge?
What body wood, and what neck wood?
The only fix, may be a rewind.
I can do that if you want to send them to me?
T

[daz]

This is interesting. I would think that with an standard volume control wired as a voltage divider nearly all pickups would have similar response to rolling off the bottom. Are these pickups unusual in any way? From what I understand, the reissue is a standard Humbucker except for the 3+3 threaded polepieces. I'm curious about what causes this pickup to behave so much differently than others.

Thats what i don't get. I don't see anything that might cause this. Makes little sense.

This is interesting. I would think that with an standard volume control wired as a voltage divider nearly all pickups would have similar response to rolling off the bottom. Are these pickups unusual in any way? From what I understand, the reissue is a standard Humbucker except for the 3+3 threaded polepieces. I'm curious about what causes this pickup to behave so much differently than others.

Yeah, pretty much a humbucker but in a larger chassis with the coils seperated by about 1/8", which i considered as a possibility but now thats eliminated by having only one coil for the plain and one for the wound.

What do they measure on an ohm meter.
If you changed all the pots, which sounds like you did?
Neck or bridge?
What body wood, and what neck wood?
The only fix, may be a rewind.
I can do that if you want to send them to me?
T

8k for both neck and bridge which both react like this, changed to my standard pots, CTS 250k, and it's a ash thinline body with maple neck. (72 thinline RI) Thanks for the offer but i will live with it as is if theres no simple tweak anyone can think of.

[big_teee]

What magnet type of Alnico did you replace with.
A5?
ash+maple+A5=Hot.
T

[daz]

What magnet type of Alnico did you replace with.
A5?
ash+maple+A5=Hot.
T

That can't be it. I have a ash/maple tele with a 9.5k A5 bridge pickup that cleans up like a maid on speed.

[pdf64]

They DO clean up with the volume knob, but VERY slowly and not as well. They barely lose gain till they get almost 1/2 way down and they clean up to the degree others do on 5 at about 2 on the volume.

I know you're sure the pots are audio taper, but the above corresponds with a linear taper; I suggest that you verify the taper, eg check resistance at 50% mechanical rotation.

[daz]

It is. It's a pot thats been in several of my other teles that have come and gone. In fact i yanked it from a 60's classic i just sold and it went into this new one.

[big_teee]

That can't be it. I have a ash/maple tele with a 9.5k A5 bridge pickup that cleans up like a maid on speed.

Does the one that is 9.5k A5, does it have rod magnets, or regular A5 bar magnet?
Have you tried the 9.5k pickup in that guitar?
If you can, Isolate, whether it is the guitar or the pickups.
Alnico 5 rod magnets are strong, and you may try lowering the pickups way down, and see if that helps.
If that helps, you may want to try A2, A3 rod magnets instead of the A5.
A3s are the weakest.
GL,
T

[daz]

Does the one that is 9.5k A5, does it have rod magnets, or regular A5 bar magnet?
Have you tried the 9.5k pickup in that guitar?
If you can, Isolate, whether it is the guitar or the pickups.
Alnico 5 rod magnets are strong, and you may try lowering the pickups way down, and see if that helps.
If that helps, you may want to try A2, A3 rod magnets instead of the A5.
A3s are the weakest.
GL,
T

Rod, it's a typical tele pickup. I'm sure it's the pickups because i had another 72 thinline with a vbery different neck and 3 bolt rather than 4 and much heavier and those pickups had the same issue. Even made a pickguard for a HB and a single coil and the issue was gone. But i missed the basic character of the WRHB's.

Different magnets was my next move...A2. Just from the way it sounds and knowing what A2 typically sounds like i think they'll be better. Even that guy who sells this mod uses A2 i believe. I'm gonna order them. The great thing is i can change them in literally 5 minutes so it's no trouble. And i don't think the issue is as bad as i thought in the first place anyways, so even if A5 ends up being better i'm ok with it as is. But i still think A2 will be better for more than just this reason. As to lowering them, i tried all that. They just don't sound near as good lower than a certain height that is where i have them now.

[pdf64]

It is. It's a pot thats been in several of my other teles that have come and gone. In fact i yanked it from a 60's classic i just sold and it went into this new one.

One of Enzo's sayings, 'don't look for excuses not to check something' comes to mind.
Check, eliminate, on to the next.

[big_teee]

Another thing that might help, is to wax pot the pickups with the covers on.
I think you said these were Wide Range Humbuckers.
So the dampening provided by wax potting wouldn't hurt, and might help with the volume roll off.
I wax pot everything that leaves my shop.
GL,
T

[daz]

Another thing that might help, is to wax pot the pickups with the covers on.
I think you said these were Wide Range Humbuckers.
So the dampening provided by wax potting wouldn't hurt, and might help with the volume roll off.
I wax pot everything that leaves my shop.
GL,
T

They're already potted, and when i reassembled them i hit em with a hair dryer till the wax reflowed.