Chinese Gibson clone neck..... makes you wonder?

[bob p]

I did have a buddy with a power planer but he’s evaporated. What’s the best way to do it by hand? A big sanding block and a lot of patience?

Is your rotary sander handheld or table mounted? A table mounted rotary + belt sander might be a great too for this sort of job, though 1/4" is a lot of wood to remove by just sanding alone.

Personally, I'd use a jointer.

Woodworking Jointers

if I had to do this in my woodshop I wouldn't use a power planer. I'd use a jointer. it's like a planer, but its a freestanding table designed for squaring large pieces of wood on end, to provide clean edges for preparing joints. it has a horizontal rotary blade, like a planer, but on a fixed table. you lower the rotary blade along with either the input or the output plane of the table to adjust the cut depth. most of the time a jointer used to square off the edges of boards for edge joining, though it's what I'd use to shave the back of a neck tenon. it allows very small amounts of wood to be removed with precision.

i guess the other option you had thought of would be to try to pass a handheld power planer across a clamped neck, or to clamp the planer upside down and try to pass the neck across it. i don't like the instability of trying to move a torquing power tool over a stationary object. i prefer to move a small object like a guitar neck across a stationary tool, and use a power planer on a larger object like a door that needs a little bit shaved off of an edge.

another method might be to route out the mortise in the body, if there's enough wood for that.

depending on how much you need to remove: if you only needed to remove a small amount of wood and you didn't have access to precision tools, perhaps you could do it with a belt sander or a rotary sander. again, a table mounted sander is better than one that's hand held.

if you needed to remove more wood than a sander could handle, then find someone who is skilled with a tablesaw or a bandsaw. people who are skilled with those tools would have no problem building a jig to hold your guitar neck to a fence, and to pass the heel end of the neck across the blade to shave off material, leaving only finish standing for the final step. with a precision fence/jig it would be no problem to take of 3/16" to 1/4".

Me? I used to use a table saw to do these sorts of things before I had the jointer. But I understand that precision table saw work is not for everyone, and a jointer is a tool that not many people would have access to.

John, do you think there's a better way?

[ric]

The mahogany isn't very hard. If I had to do it without any power tools, I'd scribe an accurate line around the perimeter, and sand it down.

I'm with John H. Don't forget to adjust the saddle about half way up and put a straight edge down the neck and make sure you're neck angle will be where you want it.
I got an SG at a yard sale with the neck popped out of it's pocket. Took the opportunity to do a fret dress with the neck off (rare w/ an SG), and glued it back in and it's a keeper. Gibson had left a lot of slop in the fit so I used epoxy for it's gap filling ability with yellow glue at the edges to glue the wood to wood. You've got a decent fit on yours, so no need for gap fill. Titebond used to make a premixed hide glue in a bottle. I've used that in the past for neck glue backs with success.

[olddawg]

I finally ended up using a wood working vise, a ridge back miter saw, a block plane, and a sanding block. I made a cut from each side using the miter saw angled a few degrees so it would be high in the middle. Then I leveled the middle with a block plane. Now I’m using a sanding block and a square to get it perfect. Since it’s mahogany it wasn’t THAT difficult. I wouldn’t be sure recommending doing it that way for maple. I kept telling myself people made legendary instruments with hand tools. I can trim a little mahogany. Lol. Will be assembling it soon. Hope it isn’t a wall hanger. We will see.

[John_H]

John, do you think there's a better way?

I make that cut with a router. The setup is simple. I clamp boards to both sides, parallel to the fingerboard surface, and leave enough room on the bottom to use a top bearing guide bit on the router. With this setup, you can make very precise depth cuts while staying perfectly square, and parallel.

I finally ended up using a wood working vise, a ridge back miter saw, a block plane, and a sanding block. I made a cut from each side using the miter saw angled a few degrees so it would be high in the middle. Then I leveled the middle with a block plane. Now I’m using a sanding block and a square to get it perfect. Since it’s mahogany it wasn’t THAT difficult. I wouldn’t be sure recommending doing it that way for maple. I kept telling myself people made legendary instruments with hand tools. I can trim a little mahogany. Lol. Will be assembling it soon. Hope it isn’t a wall hanger. We will see.

Bravo! I'm sure it'll be fine. I'm happy to see you doing battle with the wood.

I've never had a SG, but a few months ago I picked up an old Epi Standard. I'll have to rehab it soon.

[olddawg]

I make that cut with a router. The setup is simple. I clamp boards to both sides, parallel to the fingerboard surface, and leave enough room on the bottom to use a top bearing guide bit on the router. With this setup, you can make very precise depth cuts while staying perfectly square, and parallel.

Bravo! I'm sure it'll be fine. I'm happy to see you doing battle with the wood.

I've never had a SG, but a few months ago I picked up an old Epi Standard. I'll have to rehab it soon.

Damn! That never entered my mind. I have a router! I may set that jig up just to clean it up and make it perfectly flat!

[bob p]

There is more than one way to skin a cat. That's why forums like this are so helpful ... lots of great ideas.

John, I like your router idea. Clamping the boards to the neck to establish the offset for the blade is basically the same idea as my idea to build a jig to hold the neck, and then pass the wood to a tablesaw or a bandsaw for cutting. Both solutions use an add-on to provide control in submitting the wood to the cutting tool.

I don't know why I thought of routing the mortise but not the tenon. For the tenon cut I was sort of hung up on making a single pass with the blade. A jointer would've been perfect for that, and a tablesaw and a bandsaw would have been good too. A router would require multiple passes but that's generally not a problem for anyone skilled with the tool.

I think the best approach is for someone to find an approach using tools that he's familiar with and comfortable using to produce good results. I thought dawg's mitre saw idea was a good example of that -- use the tools that you're familiar with to get the job done.

[olddawg]

Ok.. I have it set up and ready to glue. If you look you can see the fishing line I used to line everything up. It's going to look a lot like a real '61 SG. (Well the 61 didn't have "speed" knobs and Grovers......) I have to get a real Gibson truss rod cover and make that bit of black plastic that goes between the front pickup and the neck. I'm deciding whether to paint the headstock face black with a gold Gibson waterslide or leave it white with a gold Gibson waterslide? I'll wait another day before I glue it and think about any oddities I may have missed. Eventually I'll put some goofball serial number on it to freak people out.

[bob p]

in 61 they used these, right?

[olddawg]

Well.... it’s pretty much done and gigable. Turned out much better than I thought it would. I got everything set up right.. the neck angle, everything. But I got the intonation about “3/8” short. If I did another one I would have it down. If I would have put the 22 fret at the start of the body it would have been perfect and I could have used a Gibson tenon cover. As it is I cut a piece of black CD box plastic to fit the space. Looks fine. It’s not a big deal, I just had to flip the damn saddles and it’s at the extreme end of the adjustment. It plays and tunes fine but it bugs me nonetheless. From my reasearch this has a metric “Nashville post” style ABR1 bridge. I hear I can put a “Tone Pros” bridge on it and give me more adjustment, but I’m not sure I want to put a $70 bridge on a $100 guitar. Lol! Also I hear a “Gotoh” metric Nashville has the same throw as the Tone Pros for $25 and will drop right in. If anyone has a clue let me know. This thing is actually really pretty nice for a beater. It surprisingly sustains extremely well (probably because the tenon goes halfway up the neck pickup. No buzzes. I had to size the nut and do a truss rod adjustment of course. Plays as good as anything else I own. I’m deciding if I’m going to shape the heal of the neck a little closer to the body. I have a gold “Gibson” water slide decal ordered for the headstock for when I feel like messing with the finish some more. Even the stock G400 pickups aren’t THAT bad. I expected crap but it isn’t the case. Might swap something better into it eventually, but it’s way usable the way it is. I’ll gig with it for sure.... I see a few broken Epiphone G400s like this about for cheap or nothing if anyone else wants to do it. The Chinese neck dropped right in with just a little work. I’m going to stamp my birthday on the back of the headstock. I doubt anyone will know it isn’t some kind of Gibson reissue but me.

[Chuck H]

One of the first things I noticed about SG's when I first started playing (they were common used guitars when I was a teenager ) was how the 22nd fret meets right at the inner end if the horns. This was no doubt a smart attempt at creating a beautiful design with the most fret access for players that wanted it. But the damn things are top heavy and, for me, uncomfortable because of it. So your little mistake, to me, seems like a happy accident. As long as it can be intonated at the saddle then I think you may enjoy better weight balance for playing. And having the bridge pickup some 3/8" further ahead of the saddles could make for a good and unique tone.

[olddawg]

Honestly Chuck I don't know what happened. I measured from from the 12th fret a dozen times. I waited 3 days before I clamped and glued it to check everything out since I know it's a one time shot. I even looked at a bunch of pictures of various SG's neck joints. The pickup in relation to the bridge is the same as it always was unless I decide to move the posts. I guess the extreme adjustment might make a little difference in tone. However, I've seen many factory Gibsons with the bridge slightly misplaced. Also, since the body is an Epiphone with a "poly" finish it's a little heavier than the usual Gibson SG so the balance is fine even with Grover knock off tuners. My first "real" guitar was an SG too. A "Mary Ford" model with factory P90s I bought used in 1973. Wish I still had it.

[g1]

But the damn things are top heavy and, for me, uncomfortable because of it.

I have no qualms about mounting strap buttons on the horn. I can't stand them on the back of the neck. That's what I did with my BC Rich Eagle, no issues whatsoever.

[olddawg]

I tell people to use a longer screw of they do that and drill the correct size pilot hole. I've seen the horn bust right off.

[Steve A.]

Titebond Liquid Hide Glue

I'm with John H. Don't forget to adjust the saddle about half way up and put a straight edge down the neck and make sure your neck angle will be where you want it.

I don't know if it would be useful here but I picked up a General Digital Precision Protractor (#1702) a few years back.



DIGITAL PRECISION PROTRACTOR from Aircraft Spruce

I got an SG at a yard sale with the neck popped out of it's pocket. Took the opportunity to do a fret dress with the neck off (rare w/ an SG), and glued it back in and it's a keeper. Gibson had left a lot of slop in the fit so I used epoxy for it's gap filling ability with yellow glue at the edges to glue the wood to wood. You've got a decent fit on yours, so no need for gap fill. Titebond used to make a premixed hide glue in a bottle. I've used that in the past for neck glue backs with success.

They still do. It was originally called Franklin Hide Glue but It Titebond bought out that company. Antique Refinishers makes another liquid hide glue called Old Brown Glue which smells much worse. A local luthier whose opinions I value highly tested different glues for guitar refret jobs and found that only CA (superglue) and Franklin liquid hide glue had more resilience (or whatever)*** than most other glues. I tested the various Titebond PVAs and type I was more resilient than types II or III.

I found a recipe for making your own liquid hide glue which will last up to a year in the refrigerator — the trick is to add salt which preserves it. I remember that the ratios were 1-2-3, I think for salt, hide flakes and water but I'll have to check my archive collection of webpages and news articles.

BTW I had recently read that Epiphone used to use epoxy for the set necks on their Gibson copies but eventually switched to Titebond 50 which is what Gibson lists on their specs page for their guitars the past few years.

BTW#2 I had read one account of a mandolin being assembled with liquid hide glue which eventually fell apart.

*** This can be heard while tapping the fret with a bone nut blank.


Steve Ahola

[Steve A.]

in 61 they used these, right?

Bob, I had read that Gibson used real gold in those knobs which is why the older knobs were selling for high prices. If that is actually true I wonder when they stopped doing that. I have a 1948 Century lap steel with recessed knobs that are taller than the regular guitar knobs which might be worth a fortune... [spin]

Steve A.

P.S. So you use Duck Duck Go... Yes, I understand its advantages - I use it for one of my Android browsers whenever I get really pissed off at Google.***

I am still waiting for someone to design a search engine which creates an actual database of the first, say, 5000 hits which can then be filtered until you find exactly what you were looking for. Yes, some of the webpages might change and URLs could disappear within minutes but that is not a big issue in view of the advantages of a search engine creating a searchable database of hits.

I suspect that back in the days when Google was trying to overtake Yahoo they were focused on generating the most hits.


*** My big concern is not Google's tracking of my searches (and monetizing them!) but its purported interest in our safety which can make it as slow as molasses. I remember being able to tell my Windows browser the degree if safety I desired. {sigh!} The options available for Google Chrome for Android under Settings is miniscule...


Steve A.