Guitar neck clear finish question

[gui_tarzan]

I have this Strat-style neck from what I think is the late 1970s, early 80s as I got it from a music shop in the late 80s. I was told it might be a Carvin but there are no identifying marks, decals, nothing except someone's signature on the back of the heel. It is not a standard length, it measures 25 1/4, not 25 1/2. This doesn't matter because when I built the body back in the early 90s, I took that into consideration. There is a four digit number stamped into the Rosewood fingerboard in between two frets toward the bottom of the neck. The nut width is 40mm or 1 9/16. The neck screw holes are also not as far apart length-wise as a standard Strat-style. I have the neck plate that just says Made in Japan on it and it's a little shorter than the common neck plate. I already took off the very worn frets and am making sure the fretboard is level before I put the new frets on. The truss rod adjustment is at the bottom of the neck.

This might be just a cheap knockoff neck but it's solid and straight so I'm going to use it on this one. I have two other bodies that I made like this for standard necks, they won't be as difficult.

So here's my question - what is the best way to get the clearcoat off? It's kind of thick, glossy and it's chipping off the edge of the fingerboard. It's extremely hard and would take forever to sand off but I don't want to damage the wood with a chemical stripper or heat. Here's the mystery to me, the clear finish smells sweet when you sand it. I can't compare it to anything in particular, just sweet. I've worked with a lot of different wood finishes over the years but I've never smelled anything like this.

The photo is a photo of an old photo that was wrinkled, the guitar and neck is as straight as an arrow.

[The Dude]

Are you trying to completely remove the finish, or are you just looking to make it less smooth? If the latter, I've had good luck using Scotch Brite pads.

[gui_tarzan]

I want to remove it completely and refinish it with a satin.

[Chuck H]

Short of sanding there simply is no way to remove the finish without stripper or heat. Is there any other way to remove finishes??? There are ALOT of strippers out there. Some are much less damaging than others. I'm thinking of the cirtus based products actually. a small test area could be done on the heel. The "sweet" smell is probably indicative of a lacquer or shellac product of some kind so it's probably easily removed with a lighter type stripper. Which should be fine for the wood and glue joints if it's not left on rediculously long. Also, the probability of it being a lacquer or shellac based finish means you could just sand it smooth without the need to remove ALL the finish and then spray some satin Deft right onto it. Again, a test spot for finish compatibility could be done on the heel.

That the neck exhibits some quilt pattern AND is straight is a testament to quality IMHE. Regardless of provenance. Good for you. And...

My 25yo franken strat has a tung oil finish. Not a pissy application but four coats. The new finish was satin but over the years the back of the neck has actually polished to a high gloss and still doesn't present any "catchiness" on sweaty hands. Which is something tung oil finishes are known for. However, my neck is a maple fingerboard and the tung oil hasn't been as resilient on that surface. So my strat has that "distressed" look that demonstrates clearly what positions I play the most on

[Mick Bailey]

The finish is possibly an acid-catalysed lacquer which was a popular in furniture and other woodwork production in the 60s and 70s. Even heavy drips and runs set really hard and it 'cuts' really well when sanded and doesn't clog abrasive papers. Polyurethane and polyester smell plasticky when abraded, but this smells quite nice.

There are strippers, and heat will soften it, but I usually remove it carefully using abrasives.

[gui_tarzan]

Short of sanding there simply is no way to remove the finish without stripper or heat. Is there any other way to remove finishes??? There are ALOT of strippers out there. Some are much less damaging than others. I'm thinking of the cirtus based products actually. a small test area could be done on the heel. The "sweet" smell is probably indicative of a lacquer or shellac product of some kind so it's probably easily removed with a lighter type stripper. Which should be fine for the wood and glue joints if it's not left on rediculously long. Also, the probability of it being a lacquer or shellac based finish means you could just sand it smooth without the need to remove ALL the finish and then spray some satin Deft right onto it. Again, a test spot for finish compatibility could be done on the heel.

That the neck exhibits some quilt pattern AND is straight is a testament to quality IMHE. Regardless of provenance. Good for you.

Yeah you're right, there ARE a lot of different types of strippers. Sand, heat, stripper... I can't think of any other type but it was late and more of a "how do I do this without damaging the doggoned thing" question. I'm going out browsing for wine and second hand shops today, I will keep my eyes open for stores that might have experience with finishes too. I wondered if it might be a shellac but it's rock-hard so I didn't think so. Our 1880s front door has shellac as a finish and it's totally different feeling.

Yes, I love the quilted wood and it's too bad I was a dumbass back then and put a Floyd on that guitar. Now the ugly plugs will show no matter what I do but it's not going anywhere so I guess it's irrelevant now.

[Helmholtz]

I had a similar problem with chipped fingerboard edges and even between frets on a MIM Fender Strat maple neck.
As with yours thick and hard/brittle lacquer.
I could successfully fill up the voids using medium viscosity superglue.
Sanded down and polished the repair is invisible.

[Mick Bailey]

I have some stripper for 2K finishes, but it also destroys glue just as easily and I wouldn't use it on a guitar. It also de-natures timber, leaving a dry and bleached appearance.

BTW, I used superglue to finish the keys on my recent Gurdy build and it worked superbly.

[Chuck H]

I've used stripper on guitar necks. But I'm a finisher and I understood that stripper could affect glue joints. But there's only one glue joint on most necks and it's wide and perpendicular to where the stripper would be applied. Since your edges are chipping up and brittle anyway I would sand those down to wood and then, if the finish is really heavy and hard to sand off the back of the neck I might use stripper for the bulk of that removal just to save time. Being careful to keep the application below the sanded work. This way stripper is never actually in contact with the fingerboard glue joint. In my own experience if you don't leave the stripper to eat at the glue joint once it's past the finish it's never an issue. But I'm happy to differ to Mick's extensive experience. So this ideal keeps any stripper off the glue joint. As to the stringent and bleached look Mick mentioned, I've never had trouble with this. That doean't mean it isn't real but, again IMHE, once everything is stripped and sanded smooth and clean the wood should color up just fine when the new finish is applied.

JM2C

[Chuck H]

Oh, and regarding shellac...

The stuff on your front door is not the same as the stuff used in instrument finishing. All the old classical stringed instruments and a great many high end guitar tops up into the modern age have been finished with shellac. And you've surely seen the checking and cracking from age and brittleness on those instruments. It's all in the polymerizing process for any given product. What was put on your front door was surely handled to keep it elastic so it could move with the wood in an exterior environment. Whereas shellac processed for instruments had to be harder to avoid damping vibration for tonal quality. That said,..

After looking at the photo's more closely I'm in agreement with Mick about the product. It's fairly recognizable in it's color and behavior and if I'd looked at all the shots sooner I'd have seen it. I've sanded A LOT of that stuff down or fully off of old kitchen cabinets as prep for refinishing.

[Mick Bailey]

Shellac isn't a durable outdoor finish, though it was used extensively for interior woodwork. Most older exterior paint is linseed oil based, with the addition of lead compounds and a dryer (terebine). Linseed oil oxidises to a really tough, slightly flexible coating that is particularly durable, especially with a red lead and linseed oil primer which soaks deep into the wood and bonds tightly to the subsequent finishing coats. An easy test for shellac is that it softens with alcohol (methylated spirits). I still have bleached shellac flakes for musical instrument use - they just dissolve in alcohol and can be stained to match existing finishes. Drying is by solvent evaporation.

[Chuck H]

I think you can still get shellac flakes. Obviously that's what would be used in instrument craft. Whereas I'm sure whatever was put on a front door would be pre canned from a hardware store. I don't know all the differences but I'm sure there must be something significant because the pre canned products develop pills and dots on sandpaper and I never get those when sanding old instruments and furnature. In case it's a question the canned products I've used are always dewaxed since they sometimes need to be compatible with other finishes. I've never tried the alcohol test. Denatured alcohol is used for thinning and cleaning up with commercial shellacs. I wouldn't be surprised if the commercial canned stuff I'm talking about is not as re-solvable once it's dry.

[Mick Bailey]

The earliest commercial canned paint was made by Sherwin Williams in the 1870s and was linseed oil and lead with colour added. This same basic mix continued for a long time - even in the 1950s my father-in-law's company was still painting houses (window frames etc) with paint mixed up at the workshop from the same basic ingredients, as they found it to be far more durable than the commercial petrochemical-industry paints that were available at the time.

[Chuck H]

Yep. And I did know that having come up in the painting industry. First in the stores and then in the field. But I'm assuming the door gui_tarzan mentioned has been refinished or at least maintained some time in the last seventy years

On a side note... Shellac is made from bug excretions.

And commonly used on manufactured foods

[Helmholtz]

FWIW, dewaxed shellac also makes an excellent sealer/primer/basecoat working with most any finish.