Thoughts on 1018 steel vs. 1022 et al

[Zhangliqun]

Looking at making my own keeper bars to have more control over materials and hence sound (I know, DUH!).

I have occasionally used 1018 CF for this, wondering how it compares soundwise to other steel grades popular with my colleagues.

[belwar]

I make my own, and for one other maker. For me I personally prefer the higher carbon content keepers. Finding the right size stock is tough. If you're looking at having them made they will likely be punched.

[Zhangliqun]

Right now I'd be happy to just be better at making a proper jig and template for drilling them out. I don't mind if they're a touch wider than spec.

I'm really a ham-fisted meathead when it comes to that sort of thing. The tricky part seems to be securing an existing keeper bar (or maybe making a better template) on top of the bar stock to use as a template in such a way that it doesn't wander around while drilling. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

[Joe Gwinn]

Right now I'd be happy to just be better at making a proper jig and template for drilling them out. I don't mind if they're a touch wider than spec.

I'm really a ham-fisted meathead when it comes to that sort of thing. The tricky part seems to be securing an existing keeper bar (or maybe making a better template) on top of the bar stock to use as a template in such a way that it doesn't wander around while drilling. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

If it's only a few, stick the existing keeper bar to the stock to be drilled using carpet tape, so long as the coolant isn't something that loosens the stickum.

More generally, it's really worthwhile to make a jig. Start with a piece of hardwood with a pocket routed into one face. The stock to be drilled should fit into the routed pocket quite closely. Over top goes a piece of steel, the template with a row of guide holes drilled, plus two holes to accept steel dowels protruding from the top of the pocketed piece of wood.

In use, one puts the stock in the pocket, puts the drilled template on top, being aligned by the dowels, and puts the entire assembly on the table of the drill press. Turn on the coolant flood and drill the holes one by one, holding the jig with hands well away from the action, so if the drill bit catches either workpiece or template there won't be much drama.

Use a split-point stub-length (screw machine) drill bit of good manufacture. This is particularly important because we are not drilling pilot holes first, and the drill bit wants to wander.

Yes, coolant is worth the trouble, even though it's messy.

Make the jig at least 8" square, so hand hold will be adequate to control the jig if the bit catches.

It may be useful to equip the jig with a handle. Typically, it's one hand on the jig and one hand on the drill press handle.

[Zhangliqun]

If it's only a few, stick the existing keeper bar to the stock to be drilled using carpet tape, so long as the coolant isn't something that loosens the stickum.

You drill through tape, I take it?

More generally, it's really worthwhile to make a jig. Start with a piece of hardwood with a pocket routed into one face. The stock to be drilled should fit into the routed pocket quite closely. Over top goes a piece of steel, the template with a row of guide holes drilled, plus two holes to accept steel dowels protruding from the top of the pocketed piece of wood.

I assume the steel dowels would be to hold the stock and template in place length-wise?

Use a split-point stub-length (screw machine) drill bit of good manufacture. This is particularly important because we are not drilling pilot holes first, and the drill bit wants to wander.

I've got some brad points and some others that look a bit like split points that really cut through steel like butter. But yes, bits sure do like to wander. My drill press is not super high quality and wobbles a bit on its own, but I think a good jig and template should keep it in line.

Make the jig at least 8" square, so hand hold will be adequate to control the jig if the bit catches. It may be useful to equip the jig with a handle. Typically, it's one hand on the jig and one hand on the drill press handle.

More good points. I've had a few items catch and it isn't pretty.

[SkinnyWire]

A machinist/friend built this for me. The guide is hardened. Not perfect, but the results are much better than the typical stamped fare.



Use jobber split point stub bits. I buy flat stock, typically 1018, and cut it to length with a Rage2 chop saw (has a TCT blade instead of abrasive - nice clean cuts w/minimal sparks and heating). The tomato sauce can has a large washer glued to the bottom to prevent tipping. Black thread cutting oil to drill. YMMV.

[RedHouse]

Drill with a "mill" bit.

Drill bits's tend to "wander", where as milling bits cut right down into the stock in the place you intended it to.

For precision ...mill...don't grill.

[David Schwab]

...and cut it to length with a Rage2 chop saw (has a TCT blade instead of abrasive - nice clean cuts w/minimal sparks and heating).

I just looked that saw up.. that looks nice! I have a cheap abrasive wheel chop saw that works fine, but makes a LOT of sparks, and as the wheel is wearing it's not cutting as nice.

[Possum]

.....

Why don't you get Harbor Freight's cheap micro-mill/drill. Thats what I use. You need to get a good vise for it and a dial guage thingy to square it up. I can do five at a time with that, clean them up on a drill vise to debur. As for 1022 good luck ever finding that stuff anywhere in anything except maybe round screw making stock. If you find any let me know.

[automan]

A machinist/friend built this for me. The guide is hardened. Not perfect, but the results are much better than the typical stamped fare.



Use jobber split point stub bits. I buy flat stock, typically 1018, and cut it to length with a Rage2 chop saw (has a TCT blade instead of abrasive - nice clean cuts w/minimal sparks and heating). The tomato sauce can has a large washer glued to the bottom to prevent tipping. Black thread cutting oil to drill. YMMV.

Why would you not get long stock, maybe a few feet long, and build a jig that you can drill a bunch of keepers on one piece of stock, then once all the holes are drilled, cut them into individual pieces and tiddy up the edges? that way you only have to set up the drilling jig once, drill out 25 or 30 of them, Then chop them off all in a row. Use a stop so you just push through, chop, push, chop, etc.

I've never made them since I am new to this, but that would be my approach.

[SkinnyWire]

I've never made them since I am new to this, but that would be my approach.

That was my initial thought. I do buy long pieces; I just cut them first. Once you give it a try, let me know how it works for you.

[SkinnyWire]

I just looked that saw up.. that looks nice! I have a cheap abrasive wheel chop saw that works fine, but makes a LOT of sparks, and as the wheel is wearing it's not cutting as nice.

The drawback is that it's huge. It has a 14" blade. I hadn't really considered how big that is until it was sitting in front of me.

That said, it cuts as advertised. Very clean, minimal sparks, and it doesn't heat the work piece so no accidental "hot potato" moments. Takes a bit if ingenuity to set it up for the small pieces, but I'd been through some abrasives and just don't like them.

Also, I think the vice for the fixture was about $10. Just a cheap Harbor Freight job.

[David Schwab]

The drawback is that it's huge. It has a 14" blade. I hadn't really considered how big that is until it was sitting in front of me.

I see they have a smaller version, the Rage 4, with a 7-1/4 blade.

I bought this:

Harbor Freight Tools - 6" Cut-Off Saw

It works very well, and the price was good, but it throws off a LOT of sparks. All my pickups have blade pole pieces, so I mostly use it for that.

[David King]

I have come up with a slightly different take on the drill guide recently. I start with the same block of wood but instead of putting the hole guide on top I put it underneath the wood block and embed a locating pin into the table of the drill press so that the drill never touches the template and the template lasts forever. Same concept as a pin router. You probably will want to use a quality "split point" drill that doesn't wander too much.

[David Schwab]

That's a great idea David. I was thinking of something similar using an indexing pin on the bottom.