Thoughts on 1018 steel vs. 1022 et al

[Possum]

...

Belwar, cool but seems like way overkill. Why are you not stacking the pieces, I can get five deep and drill them all in about the same time your machine does. Are you wasting the end pieces as well?

David I have the same cutoff tool from Harbor that you have. the downside to those is they cut really hot and leave the metal blue on the cuts. I have the Micromark mini-band saw, with a new blade it makes cuts really fast. Their blades for it are way overpriced so I buy bunches of them from band saw makers on the net, about half the price as Micromark's and last longer....

[Joe Gwinn]

I think im just a precision nazi :>

The center drilling cycle adds about 30-35 seconds a keeper bar, but it extends the life of the standard drill bits because they don't wander off.

What length drill bits are you using?

Joe, I didn't know you had a machine shop. What kind of tools do you have?

I have a small shop. The main tools are a Clausing 5914 lathe and a Burke Millrite MVI (like a Bridgeport, but about 2/3 the size), a Wilton 8201 wood/metal cutting bandsaw, and a small drill press. And a lot of hammers.

I'm in the process of setting the Clausing up for full flood cooling, which involves all manner of shields to catch and capture coolant flung off the chuck. This replaces a spray cooling system that filled the shop with an obnoxious fog of coolant mist.

A standard machinists' joke is that lathe men have a vertical stripe, while mill men have a horizontal stripe.

[David Schwab]

David I have the same cutoff tool from Harbor that you have. the downside to those is they cut really hot and leave the metal blue on the cuts.

I had that happen in the beginning, because I was cutting the bars laying wide and not tall. But it never happens at all now when I have them standing on end. I don't force it, just let it do its thing, but I can cut 8 blades in a minute or so.

By the time I pick them up they are just a little warm.

So the trick is to have it cut through a tall but thin bar, not a squat but wide bar.

[kevinT]

What length drill bits are you using?

I have a small shop. The main tools are a Clausing 5914 lathe and a Burke Millrite MVI (like a Bridgeport, but about 2/3 the size), a Wilton 8201 wood/metal cutting bandsaw, and a small drill press. And a lot of hammers.

I'm in the process of setting the Clausing up for full flood cooling, which involves all manner of shields to catch and capture coolant flung off the chuck. This replaces a spray cooling system that filled the shop with an obnoxious fog of coolant mist.

A standard machinists' joke is that lathe men have a vertical stripe, while mill men have a horizontal stripe.

So what is better to use for drilling holes in stock, a milling machine or a drill press?

Possum, what are you using? Are you using a coolant?

Second question, if you're using a drill press, how do you know how much pressure to apply to the arm as you are drilling....are you applying coolant/oil as it is drilling or do you have an automated setup like belwar?

[RedHouse]

...I've made about 2000 keepers so far on the CNC....

That's a lot of keepers Belwar, you making that many pickups, or selling to other winders?

[belwar]

Belwar, cool but seems like way overkill. Why are you not stacking the pieces, I can get five deep and drill them all in about the same time your machine does. Are you wasting the end pieces as well?

David I have the same cutoff tool from Harbor that you have. the downside to those is they cut really hot and leave the metal blue on the cuts. I have the Micromark mini-band saw, with a new blade it makes cuts really fast. Their blades for it are way overpriced so I buy bunches of them from band saw makers on the net, about half the price as Micromark's and last longer....

I could probably stack them, but to be honest I just havent tried it yet. I'd be worried about wandering.

[SkinnyWire]

Do you guys want to see the CNC setup that I use to make them? If theres interest i'll take some photos and video of it and post it for y'all to see. It's nothing pretty but it gets the job done.

What started me down the path of making my own was partly the crappy quality of stamped keepers and partly the keepers that Andrew C. used to sell. They're machined, and head and shoulders above the stamped fare that everyone else sells. Trouble is, he stopped selling parts. My preference would be for machined parts. Not because the accuracy is required, but because I just like them better and obviously you aren't as limited to the dimensions of flat stock.

That said, it takes some hefty coin to be properly set up for it. I researched mills, joined a machinist board, etc., to gather information on the process. Most of the machinist types that contacted me privately said "this is really just a drilling job". I had some parts laser cut, but they were substandard. Having them machined was cost prohibitive, at least by the quotes I was getting.

So it was back to drilling and a fixture was the way to go. I built a couple initially out of wood using a keeper as the template. Works, but gets sloppy quick. As the seat has worn on this fixture, I have to do a bit more de-burring on the bottom of the pieces (maybe it's a worn bit and my crappy skills too). I just twirl a countersink in each hole a couple of times creating a slight chamfer.

Anyway, if you sell machined keepers what's the going rate?

[Possum]

....

Here is a cheap mill drill that I use:
- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

You will need to get a good vise for it, under $100

I'm stacking my stock in a vise, no wandering, just using regular drill bits...

[StarryNight]

For the novices like me reading this thread I can see the keeper bar's purpose as a conduit to pass magnetic energy up to the screw heads. Because the holes of the bar are oversized it could be said that some of the screws may not even be touching the keeper bar (however slight) - depending on how it sits under the bobbin. My question is does the keeper bar being stamped or machined make a difference that is noticable to you all? All things being equal if you switched out the keeper bar in a humbucker that was machined vs stamped or one that was 1018 or 1022 would you notice a difference in the tone of the pickup?

[Zhangliqun]

For the novices like me reading this thread I can see the keeper bar's purpose as a conduit to pass magnetic energy up to the screw heads. Because the holes of the bar are oversized it could be said that some of the screws may not even be touching the keeper bar (however slight) - depending on how it sits under the bobbin.

The holes are still small enough that it's all but impossible for the screws to not have more than enough contact because the spacing is never quite perfect. I usually have to ream my keepers out a little wider so the screws will go through smoothly enough that I don't strip the head.

All things being equal if you switched out the keeper bar in a humbucker that was machined vs stamped or one that was 1018 or 1022 would you notice a difference in the tone of the pickup?

I don't know for sure about stamped vs. machined but 1022 would be brighter.

[Joe Gwinn]

So what is better to use for drilling holes in stock, a milling machine or a drill press?

Depends on what they are, and what they weight. If you have space for only one, the mill is better can it can drill and mill, while the drill press can only drill

Second question, if you're using a drill press, how do you know how much pressure to apply to the arm as you are drilling....are you applying coolant/oil as it is drilling or do you have an automated setup like belwar?

Mill or drill press, one soon learns how hard to push, and develops a feel for it. Practice makes perfect.

As for coolant, I have an automated setup, but one not nearly aggressive as on Belwar's Fadal. I use a Little Giant coolant pump with Rustlick WS-5050 soluble oil diluted 10:1 to 15:1.

[Zhangliqun]

Depends on what they are, and what they weight. If you have space for only one, the mill is better can it can drill and mill, while the drill press can only drill

Mill or drill press, one soon learns how hard to push, and develops a feel for it. Practice makes perfect.

As for coolant, I have an automated setup, but one not nearly aggressive as on Belwar's Fadal. I use a Little Giant coolant pump with Rustlick WS-5050 soluble oil diluted 10:1 to 15:1.

What do you catch the coolant with?

[Joe Gwinn]

What do you catch the coolant with?

Depends on the mill or drill press. Many are equipped with an "oil table", which has gutters or edges, and a threaded drain hole.

Here is a drill press with an oil table: G7943 12 Speed Heavy-Duty Bench-Top Drill Press. The X grooves are T-slots, intended for bolting a workpiece to the table. Although one cannot see it in the picture, there will be a drain hole threaded to accept a pipe or pipe fitting.

I generally use a copper threaded-pipe to copper-pipe fitting and a 2" piece of copper pipe soldered into the fitting, with some plastic tubing forced onto the copper pipe stub. The tubing is routed to the coolant pump, which sits on the floor.

Many drill presses are intended for woodwork, where one drills dry and the cutting forces are lower, so the drill press table slots go all the way through the table, which is fairly thin.

In this case, use a pan of some kind, such as an aluminum baking pan or a bakers' "quarter sheet" or something soldered up from copper sheet. The pan or sheet will have to have a drain fitting added. The pan goes on the table first, followed by the jig, so coolant streaming over the jig and work will be collected by the pan and will flow down the pan drain, eventually returning in to the coolant pump.

The pressure is very low and the flow relatively gentle, so almost anything will work. For small volume work, one can have a jug of coolant on a shelf feeding the nozzle that floods the workpiece, and another jug on the floor collecting the coolant and chips, the jugs being periodically switched. The jug on the floor has a filter funnel to catch the chips. This method gets old fast, though.

The coolant pump I got for my little drill press: Little Giant Pump Company. They come on sale from time to time.

This is roughly what I paid: VMC-1 Coolant Unit (Little Giant) at Wholesale Tool Company | Industrial Machinery + Tool Supply. I did end up getting a better nozzle than the one supplied.