Any valuable info on Lane Poor MM pups?

[David King]

Belwar,
Feel free to post any and all details on the PU's I sent.

[David Schwab]

That inductance does seem low for normal setups. However considering the inductance to resistance ratio it's not bad at all.

If the pickups are mostly coil wire and ceramic magnets, the inductance will be on the low side. When you start adding metallic cores and pole pieces it will go up.

[belwar]

Belwar,
Feel free to post any and all details on the PU's I sent.

Ok, Thanks David, When I get them back from my Doctor I'll post up the numbers,

[Evilbiker]

I don´t know if this is any thing thats interesting for you, bur heres some scanned picture of a catalog i got around -00! It doesent say so much but i thinking you guys may want to see it!
Front and back and inside!

[Evilbiker]

and price list and preamp info!

[belwar]

Thats awsome, thank you very much for taking the time to post that! It;s appriciated.

Matt

[Joe Gwinn]

Well I only had time to measure 1 set of P/U's before I had to send them out for X-ray and that was the P-bass pickup... The DCR was something crazy low like 2.6 [Kohm], so I'm assuming it was wired parallel.. I tried to get a Resonance Peak measurement but my normal method didn't seem to work - either I was doing something wrong or the peak was above 20khz. I'll wait till I get them back and try again.. Seems like really low inductance to me..


These reading measured using an Extech 380193 using the "SER" setting.
Inductance @ 120hz: 0.441 H
Q as the secondary Parameter of Inductance @ 120hz: .1400
D as the secondary Parameter of Inductance @ 120hz: 7.140
R as the secondary Parameter of Inductance @ 120hz 2.422Kohms
Capacitance @ 120hz: 3.813 uF
Q as the secondary Parameter of Capacitance @ 120hz: .1400
D as the secondary Parameter of Capacitance @ 120hz: 7.145
R as the secondary Parameter of Capacitance @ 120hz 2.422K
AC Resistance @ 120hz: 2.427Kohms
Inductance @ 1khz: .437H
Q as the secondary Parameter of Inductance @ 1khz: 1.11
D as the secondary Parameter of Inductance @ 1khz: .9003
R as the secondary Parameter of Inductance @ 1khz 2.478K
Capacitance @ 1khz: 57.75nf
Q as the secondary Parameter of Capacitance @ 1khz: 1.447
D as the secondary Parameter of Capacitance @ 1khz: .9005
R as the secondary Parameter of Capacitance @ 1khz 2.478kohms
AC Resistance @ 1khz: 2.484K

There are a few odd things here.

First of all, using a LCR meter to measure capacitance of an inductor will give nonsense answers. It will not give you the self capacitance. The meter measures the complex impedance, and uses your input as to what the component is to compute the value that the component would have to be to achieve that impedance. If you lie to the meter, it will lie back.

Second, D and Q are the inverses of one another, so Q*D=1, and if you know one you can compute the other. D (for dissipation) is usually between zero and one, while Q is usually larger than one. Both D and Q are always positive.

These reading measured using an Extech 380193 using the "PAL" setting.

There is no new information here. The instrument makes the one measurement of complex impedance, and then computes parameter values according the the circuit model you have told the instrument to use.

L PAR - Inductor and resistor in parallel.

L SER - Inductor and resistor in series. This is what we have traditionally used, because the DC resistance dominates.

C PAR - Capacitor and resistor in parallel. Used for film capacitors.

C SER - Capacitor and resistor in series. Used for electrolytics.

[belwar]

... using a LCR meter to measure capacitance of an inductor will give nonsense answers. It will not give you the self capacitance.

Fair enough - Then what WILL give you the self capacitance of a single coil and or dual coil in either Series or Parallel?

The meter measures the complex impedance, and uses your input as to what the component is to compute the value that the component would have to be to achieve that impedance. If you lie to the meter, it will lie back.

Ok, that makes sense - your talking about the use of the SER/PAR switch. I am however totally lost as to how this measures impedance (and the difference between complex and regular? impedance). I've been wondering how impedance is measured.. can you elaborate?

Second, D and Q are the inverses of one another, so Q*D=1, and if you know one you can compute the other. D (for dissipation) is usually between zero and one, while Q is usually larger than one. Both D and Q are always positive.

I didnt know that. I'm still learning with this device, so while I have these pickups in my possesion I measure them with every possible setting, and that way im not missing anything.. even if some of the info is wrong it can be sorted correctly later.


bel

[ModulusMK]

Thanks for the pics!
By the way, I found a guy that sells a Modulus Flea with LP MM for $1700! But he doesn't want to ship to me of some reason .

First was everything ok, and at the end when we had to deal about shipping option he gave me a few options and when I had almost to pay him he changed his mind... :/ I'm overseas but he said it was no problem to ship internationally and sudenly BUMP!

Anybody willing to help around this? Maybe someone to buy the bass and reship to me, please? I've been waiting for this opurtunity for a long time and the guy sudenly doesn't want to ship overseas...

[David King]

MMK,
Why not fill out your profile so we know what part of the world you are in? Shipping to Europe is easy with a few exceptions.

[Joe Gwinn]

Fair enough - Then what WILL give you the self capacitance of a single coil and or dual coil in either Series or Parallel?

Get a collection of film capacitors, measure their capacitance with the LCR meter, and write the value of each capacitor on the capacitor with a fine-point sharpy. One by one, connect a capacitor in parallel with the pickup under test, and determine the zero-phase resonant frequency for each film capacitor. Multiply all resonant frequencies by 2 Pi to convert them from Hertz to radians per second. Plot added capacitance versus the square of resonant frequency in radians per second. If the inductance does not vary with frequency, the plotted points will fall on a straight line, but more likely they will fall on a curve. Draw a best straight line through the points. Where the line intersects the capacitance axis is the negative of the self capacitance. (There is a more complicated algorithm to compensate for the variation of inductance with frequency, but it doesn't seem worth the effort here.)

Ok, that [the meter measures complex impedance only] makes sense - you're talking about the use of the SER/PAR switch. I am however totally lost as to how this measures impedance (and the difference between complex and regular? impedance). I've been wondering how impedance is measured.. can you elaborate?

The meter always measures complex impedance at the chosen frequency (120 Hz or 1000 Hz), regardless of the SER/PAR setting or the choice of L, C, or R.

Given the complex impedance and the circuit diagram implied by the choice of SER/PAR and L/C/R, the meter computes the component values, and from these values also computes D or Q.

As for how complex impedance is measured, the simplest way is with a dual-trace oscilloscope, where one plots voltage and resulting current, both as a function of time. If the unit under test is a resistor, voltage and current will be in phase (vary in unison). If the unit under test is a pure capacitor or pure inductor, the voltage and current will be out of phase by one quarter of a cycle (90 degrees), leading or lagging. This happens because, unlike resistors, inductors and capacitors can store and release energy.

If one measures an impure capacitance or inductance, the phase difference will be somewhere in between.

In any event, the impedance is the ratio of voltage divided by current. If voltage and current are in phase, the impedance will be wholly real (resistive). If voltage and current are out of phase by 90 degrees, the impedance will be wholly imaginary (reactive). If the phase difference is in between, the impedance will have both real and imaginary components.

The mechanical equivalents of resistors, capacitors, and inductors are dashpots, springs, and masses.

The terms real and imaginary come from the algebra of complex numbers, typically first taught in High School Algebra. As a reminder, the imaginary unit is the square root of minus one.

Here is the refresher on Complex number.

For a dose of math with some pictures, see Electrical impedance.

I didn't know that. I'm still learning with this device, so while I have these pickups in my possession I measure them with every possible setting, and that way I'm not missing anything.. even if some of the info is wrong it can be sorted correctly later.

Recording everything is OK, so long as one understands the limitations of the instrument.

[ModulusMK]

MMK,
Why not fill out your profile so we know what part of the world you are in? Shipping to Europe is easy with a few exceptions.

Of course, why not, I'll fill my info. I'm from Europe, Macedonia, Kumanovo is the town.

[tubby.twins]

David,

Thanks a million for that info - I'd love to see the scans if you ever find them.. I'm trying to find the difference between the HB, and DV.. I guess in the HB it was WW or NN, and the DV it was WN..

I see there is someone on E-bay regularly selling LP's. He's in the same city as the Legacy pickups (Who is making the repro's). I thought about buying from him, but im wondering if what is being sold as authentic is actually a repro, or the bad batch you speak of.

bel

I can speak with some authority on this. The guy on eBay from Fall River used to work for Lane Poor as an apprentice, and he is restarting the company. Currently he is selling real "NOS" (New Old Stock) Lane Poor pickups, but as he gets things moving, he plans to make new pickups in the original method (or as closely as possible).

I know this because I just transferred to his custody the "lanepoor.com" DNS domain, which I had been holding onto for several years in case something like this happened. You can see that this webpage points to his website now, instead of the placeholder page which links to "lanepoor.net" (the Community Archive site that I also run). I also gave him some helpful advice on what he should do with the company in his attempts to get things up and running. (I think he just needed a good pep talk.)

I'm purposely withholding some details, because I don't know whether he wants me to start trumpeting the good news from the rooftops, reveal his name to the general public, etc. But I can testify that he is the real deal, and that there is an excellent chance that Lane Poor pickups will no longer be as scarce as they have been for the past years. I bought a NOS soapbar (JB4250) pickup from him - he was actually going to give it to me to cover the costs of the domain transfer, but I insisted on paying for it because I'm a nice guy.

I've already put in a request with the guy in Fall River to see if he has any NOS MM pickups that he would be willing to sell, but have received no reply at this time. I haven't seen him post any NOS MM pickups on eBay so far.

David King, you and I chatted on the phone several years ago about Lane Poor pickups. I've been doing my best to collect and enjoy them for years. Drop me a PM and I'll share some more details with you.

[David Schwab]

You know, there may be some legal ramifications about having a domain that is the same as a living person's name, especially if you are using the fame of that person's name to market a new product. I was able to get imanicoppola.com back from the cyber squatters that claimed it after Sony let it expire, because Imani is a real person and that was a domain to promote her music. I used to run her web site.

I'm just pointing that out.

[ModulusMK]

I can speak with some authority on this. The guy on eBay from Fall River used to work for Lane Poor as an apprentice, and he is restarting the company. Currently he is selling real "NOS" (New Old Stock) Lane Poor pickups, but as he gets things moving, he plans to make new pickups in the original method (or as closely as possible).

I know this because I just transferred to his custody the "lanepoor.com" DNS domain, which I had been holding onto for several years in case something like this happened. You can see that this webpage points to his website now, instead of the placeholder page which links to "lanepoor.net" (the Community Archive site that I also run). I also gave him some helpful advice on what he should do with the company in his attempts to get things up and running. (I think he just needed a good pep talk.)

I'm purposely withholding some details, because I don't know whether he wants me to start trumpeting the good news from the rooftops, reveal his name to the general public, etc. But I can testify that he is the real deal, and that there is an excellent chance that Lane Poor pickups will no longer be as scarce as they have been for the past years. I bought a NOS soapbar (JB4250) pickup from him - he was actually going to give it to me to cover the costs of the domain transfer, but I insisted on paying for it because I'm a nice guy.

I've already put in a request with the guy in Fall River to see if he has any NOS MM pickups that he would be willing to sell, but have received no reply at this time. I haven't seen him post any NOS MM pickups on eBay so far.

By your saying there are some unsold LP pups? It would be nice to have an MM. If any of them let us know. I would like to buy 2 of them.
BTW who is the guy that sells them on eBay, what's his registered name?