Turn count on original Fender WRHB?

[Peter Naglitsch]

After this thread I ordered some of the threaded magnets from Sensmag. Nice stuff and BTW I'm quite sure that it is exactly tha same nagets that Telenator/Telebob use when modifying reissued WRHB, the same he is posting all over the internet about (if you do not believe me, do a search for wide range humbucker and see how many hits have his name in them).

Anyway I have a reissue WRHB in for a rebuild, and I'm experimenting right now with turn count. At the same time I would like to check my data if someone would like to lend a helping hand. In the book "the Fender Telecaster" Duchossoir says that the WRHB had 5000 turns of 42AWG poly on each coil, but also states that the dcr was 10,6 kohms. The same dcr have been mentioned elsewere (the guitar pickup handbook and the book by Mario Milan). A dcr of around 10 k makes the turn count of 5000/coil not so likely (otherwise that book by Duchossoir is extremely detailed and trustworthy). I have seen turn count numbers ranging from 6200 to 6800 on the internet. Have anyone more information about this. If so I might be able to share more or less all the other measurements from a real vintage WRHB (as it wasn't mine I wasn't alowed to take of the wire to measure the turn count but I have almost all the other measeurements).

[Down Time]

Remember the original Widerange pickups have a larger coil than the new Mex RI's. If you wind the Mex coils up to the original spec they will probably sound quite a bit different than an original. If you can even fit enough wire on that smaller coil to reach the original 10K plus reading.

[Peter Naglitsch]

Well I can get over 6000 turns of 42 AWG Poly (the original WRHB wire) on a normal HB bobbin, but yeah, the original bobbins and the reissues are not nearly the same. The reissues are more of the standard Gibson type bobbins so I will make new bobbins.

I know I can always calculate how many turns I need for 10.6 k dcr (is that number right? it should be right according to the literature I have) but I thought I'd throw the question out there. Might also be interesting for future refferences for others that make a search...

[John_H]

The original WRH I had measured 11k.

[Tele-Bob]

After this thread I ordered some of the threaded magnets from Sensmag. Nice stuff and BTW I'm quite sure that it is exactly tha same nagets that Telenator/Telebob use when modifying reissued WRHB, the same he is posting all over the internet about (if you do not believe me, do a search for wide range humbucker and see how many hits have his name in them).

Check again Peter. We're using alnico in our MOD2 and MOD3 WRHB mods. You're being a little irresponsible.

If you really did your research you would have found that Sens Mag has copied my exact lengths and thread pitches. They had nothing like this previously. Their sudden ability to produce these parts is due to an inquiry we had made with them. They decided to simply start manufacturing these parts and make them available to anyone who wants them. That's not cricket.

The only problem is, what Sens Mag is calling "alnico II" is actually FeCrCo and their grade two acts more like alnico 5 but not as chimey.

[salvarsan]

bobbin dimensions?

Hi, Pete.


What are the interior bobbin dimensions on the WRHB?
The TDPRI forum mentions pole spacing but no coil dimensions.


-drh

[Peter Naglitsch]

Bob, I don’t get the irresponsible part. If you were taking an active part of this forum you would know that this is a place to discuss ideas, designs and to help each other, not to defend or push your products. You would also know that this is an old post and that we are indeed right now discussing if the Sensmag threaded magnets are alnico of fecrco. If in fact Sensmag ripped you off, I feel for you.

Regardless of the magnets being alnico of fecrco it is indeed possible to make a really good sounding pickup rewinding a Fender WRHBs reissueand using the Sensmag threaded magnets. I have done it several times now. I have also build some very interesting cross over pickups with the WRHB design, but fitted into a standard HB rout.

Salvarsan: According to info I have the bobbin is 73.0 mm long,18.9 to 19 mm wide and the height is 9.5 mm. The pole spread is 54.5 mm

[David Schwab]

If in fact Sensmag ripped you off, I feel for you.

They only ripped him off if he supplied some information they didn't possess, like a process for making those magnets, and if he supplied a NDA.

Regardless of the magnets being alnico of fecrco it is indeed possible to make a really good sounding pickup rewinding a Fender WRHBs reissueand using the Sensmag threaded magnets. I have done it several times now. I have also build some very interesting cross over pickups with the WRHB design, but fitted into a standard HB rout.

The originals weren't alnico, so why should a reissue be alnico? The sensmag magnets are probably closer to the original CuNiFe magnets.

[Jeff Callahan]

I had an original bridge pickup out of a '72 Thinline show up at 10.1K. The top coil had the extra 0.1K. I wound 6100 turns of 42 PE, and got 5.14K.

[Down Time]

They only ripped him off if he supplied some information they didn't possess, like a process for making those magnets, and if he supplied a NDA.



The originals weren't alnico, so why should a reissue be alnico? The sensmag magnets are probably closer to the original CuNiFe magnets.

I thought Fecrco was a little more powerful than Alnico. CuNife was not as powerful as Alnico. How is Fecrco closer to the original CuNife?

[Busterdawg]

If in fact Sensmag ripped you off, I feel for you.

Ripped off Seth Lover, maybe... but certainly not Tele-Bob.

[Peter Naglitsch]

They only ripped him off if he supplied some information they didn't possess, like a process for making those magnets, and if he supplied a NDA..

Yeah, I know. It's only my way of being a bit polite/sympathetic with the guy and trying to cool things of a bit before it gets into a flame war. That is certainly not my intention. However I will still defend my original opinion on this guy.

The originals weren't alnico, so why should a reissue be alnico? The sensmag magnets are probably closer to the original CuNiFe magnets.

Exactly my point. Ant if this Tele-Bob/Telenator guy really were shooting for 100% accuracy he would have known that the original magnets weren't made with a 10-32 thread but rather with a M5 thread with 0.9 mm thread pitch. The difference isn't very big but anyhow...

A bit of novelty info regarding the screws on the modern reissued WRHB: They are quite a bit over sized. They have a outer diameter of 5.43 mm or 0.214" Thats why you have to be a bit inventive if you are going to use the sensmag threaded magnets to fit in the bobbins in the reissues. The bar magnet is also a bit odd, being 58.30 x 13.42 x 3.42 mm or 2.295 x 0.518 x 0.134", slightly larger than a standard PAF style magnet.

[Old Tele man]

...my immediate translation of mr. telenator was: "...and, what part of genuine don't do understand?"

...look at my posting to him on this subject over on The Gear Page.

[David Schwab]

I thought Fecrco was a little more powerful than Alnico. CuNife was not as powerful as Alnico. How is Fecrco closer to the original CuNife?

Probably isn't. But it's not alnico either.

I figured they both have iron in them, and alnico doesn't.

It's not just the strength of a magnet that makes it sound a certain way.

[David Schwab]

...my immediate translation of mr. telenator was: "...and, what part of genuine don't do understand?"

That's too funny!

...look at my posting to him on this subject over on The Gear Page.

I'm going to have to look that up.