How Does Tension effect sound and output?

[bsmith]

This may have been addressed on this forum so excuse me for asking. But just in case it hasn't. When making a pickup, how does the tension effect the tone of the pickup and or output? I know if your winding by hand there is no way to calculate this, but say your using a tensioner so you can calculate.

Thanks.

[RedHouse]

...This may have been addressed on this forum so excuse me for asking....

Just in case can be found out with the search function, but yes it may have been asked before, did you do a search here on that?

The problem you might find with this question is that many winders tend to consider tension as one of the "secret" parameters only to be discovered through research and/or trial-n-error and much testing. You may not get a simple answer to this particular question but good-on-ya for asking!.

[belwar]

This may have been addressed on this forum so excuse me for asking. But just in case it hasn't. When making a pickup, how does the tension effect the tone of the pickup and or output? I know if your winding by hand there is no way to calculate this, but say your using a tensioner so you can calculate.

Thanks.

It depends on the pickup you are making really.. Tighter tension means more wire on the coil, and sometimes slightly higher resistances. If you are potting the pickup you can really experiment with different tensions, but if you are leaving it up potted you pretty much have to use lots of tension and wrap the coil tight.

I really only make humbuckers and P-90's at the momment and myself I like to you the most tension my winder can take without snapping the wire on startup.. plus I dont pot my coils.

bel

[RedHouse]

It depends on the pickup you are making really.. Tighter tension means more wire on the coil, and sometimes slightly higher resistances. If you are potting the pickup you can really experiment with different tensions, but if you are leaving it up potted you pretty much have to use lots of tension and wrap the coil tight.

I really only make humbuckers and P-90's at the momment and myself I like to you the most tension my winder can take without snapping the wire on startup.. plus I dont pot my coils.

bel

Tighter only means higher resistance if you are stretching the wire while winding. The main thing decent tension brings is uniformity as oposed to loose tension and centrifugal force forcing the middle of a coil outward until you have an oval shape with the middle poles farther away from the coil than the High-n-Low "E" strings.

Whoops...there goes a secret just now!

[Possum]

...

I did an LCR test on this subject no that long ago. From what the meter shows is that tight seems to muddy up the bass and brighten the treble, loose opens up the bass and darkens the treble, well actually the 1khz range. The bulge thing happens naturally on a machine winder if you don't compensate for it or have your end limits set a bit inside the flanges...

[bsmith]

Cool, thanks for info!

[frankfalbo]

So what does it say that these two coils look different from one another? Uneven tension between winders? From one coil to the next? If your coils looked like this would you use a clear bobbin?

Also as a side note, check out the square hole in the slug coil. The pin rotated in the mold eh?

[RedHouse]

So what does it say that these two coils look different from one another? Uneven tension between winders? From one coil to the next? If your coils looked like this would you use a clear bobbin?

Also as a side note, check out the square hole in the slug coil. The pin rotated in the mold eh?

One of two things could be at play, the screw coil could have had less tension or the slug coil was pinched-in by the person who taped/leaded the coil.

A lot of winders wind loose, then push/pinch-in the coil in the center area (as looking from the top like we are) to get it looking right and allow room for the tape and solder leads etc.

What pickup is that BTW?

[Joe Gwinn]

So what does it say that these two coils look different from one another? Uneven tension between winders? From one coil to the next? If your coils looked like this would you use a clear bobbin?

Also as a side note, check out the square hole in the slug coil. The pin rotated in the mold eh?

It may be at least partly an optical effect. I think I see symptoms of lensing (refraction) by the epoxy.

[JGundry]

So what does it say that these two coils look different from one another? Uneven tension between winders? From one coil to the next? If your coils looked like this would you use a clear bobbin?

Also as a side note, check out the square hole in the slug coil. The pin rotated in the mold eh?

The answer is there is simply more turns on the screw bobbin. Neither coil is looser and neither is problematic. What looks like overflow on the bottom coil is diffraction from the clear plastic.

[Possum]

...

You guys are all blind. The slug coil core is way fatter than the screw core....

[frankfalbo]

The answer is there is simply more turns on the screw bobbin.

Not according to the website...

Gibson - Gibson USA: Zoot Suit SG Electric Guitar, images, videos and detailed specs,

My favorite quote:
"The wire used in these pickups is made from polysol copper...It is the same wire used in pickup manufacturing in the 1950s and 1960s."

What looks like overflow on the bottom coil is diffraction from the clear plastic.

Yes of course. There's no overflow, that's the "fish tank" effect of the clear bobbin. Anyway it's fun to see what people put up on the web, I thought it was pertinent for a discussion about tension, since you can see in there. And/or go to the local store that carries these and look in person.

[kevinT]

You guys are all blind. The slug coil core is way fatter than the screw core....

It looks like it....but it could be an optical illusion. The screw bobbin's core may have an issue (be tapered) giving the appearance that the screw bobbin's core is smaller from the angle of the camera shot. What I think I see is on the screw bobbin, the wire or lower part of the coil near the bottom flange looks as if it's about the same distance as the wire on the slug bobbin. However, on the screw bobbin, the top part of the coil looks as if it over hangs the rest of the coil and is closer to the screws. I can see that possibility as well as actually being larger as you've stated.

You would think with CAD and all the high-tech software and machining tools for making molds, that you would not have a problem with sizing/measurements (if they wanted both cores to be the same size) but as frank said...look at the flaw in the square on the bobbin...anything is possible.

Regarding the wire,....IMO the wire is being squeezed out of the top of the edge of the tape. The wire oozes over the tape so to speak. I have had this situation while experiementing with different tensions, especially on loose winds.
Also if the coils are loose and fat along with the leads on the side, the coils could be pressing against one another and pushing the wire out of the top over the tape.

It is peculiar that is for sure.

[Possum]

...

I don't think its optical those are stainless steel slugs, the fatter core is on purpose, I spotted that the first time I saw that thing. There is way more clearance away from the slugs than conventional buckers.

[JGundry]

The coil former core is the same size on both coils. The slugs are a smaller diameter than the screws so it appears bigger on the slug coil but it's not. The slugs are probably .187-.186"' diameter and the screw heads are probably close to .200" diameter. If they had it vintage correct the screw coil would have the larger coil former core, but they don't. There is just more wire on the screw coil. The center just naturally flares out more as the coil gets larger, even with a lot of tension.This is real obvious with P-90 coils.