A look inside a Lane Poor MM5.

[David King]

On an unrelated note those coils look to be wound with something like 42 AWG not 38. Correct?

[belwar]

So let's get this straight; the "N" or Narrow sidewinders have the pole pieces running down the center? That would presumably focus the field at a small piece of the string's length.

The "w" or wide sidewiders have an extra ceramic bar or short pieces of ceramic bar sitting vertically between the two coils?

Steel is going to raise the inductance and that would raise the resonant peak frequency?
As I understand it Lane was interested in keeping the resonant peak lower as that resulted is a brighter *sounding* pickup. (A peak at 1 or 2kHz is going to sound a lot brighter than a similar sized peak at 5-6kHz simply because our ears are so much more sensitive at the 1-2kHz band).

I've got to find my pad of paper at home that has all my measurements from the two pickups. The difference in inductance and RP was negligible if I remember correctly.

And you are correct on the layout of the two pickups. Both are technically narrow, but the wide version is going to have a much stronger mag field at the string contact point.

[belwar]

On an unrelated note those coils look to be wound with something like 42 AWG not 38. Correct?

I was guessing 42 at first, but now I think it might be 40. I still have the coils. If you think you can get some wire off to get an ohms per foot reading i'll send them to you.

Matt

[ModulusMK]

I was guessing 42 at first, but now I think it might be 40. I still have the coils. If you think you can get some wire off to get an ohms per foot reading i'll send them to you.

Matt

If you can calculate or measure the wire gauge post it here... others of us would like to know as well. And any other info that you might have.

[David Schwab]

Steel is going to raise the inductance and that would raise the resonant peak frequency?
As I understand it Lane was interested in keeping the resonant peak lower as that resulted is a brighter *sounding* pickup. (A peak at 1 or 2kHz is going to sound a lot brighter than a similar sized peak at 5-6kHz simply because our ears are so much more sensitive at the 1-2kHz band).

I would think that raising the inductance will lower the resonant frequency.

Even though that sounds brighter, remember that after the resonant peak, the response of the pickup falls off rapidly.

What he seems to have been doing was to keep the response very wide and flat, with a high resonant peak.

[David King]

I was guessing 42 at first, but now I think it might be 40. I still have the coils. If you think you can get some wire off to get an ohms per foot reading i'll send them to you.

Matt

I think it would be as easy to measure the coil cross section area and calculate gauge using the known DCR and length of each turn.

Another option is to melt or burn off the potting epoxy and insulation and take a micrometer reading off the remaining copper.

My $20 Micronta DMM isn't capable of resolving mohs or 1% of 200 Ohms

[mkat]

There are strands of wire sticking out of the coil, so why not measure with a micrometer? You can get the dia of both the copper with and without insulation.

[tubby.twins]

Even though that sounds brighter, remember that after the resonant peak, the response of the pickup falls off rapidly.

What he seems to have been doing was to keep the response very wide and flat, with a high resonant peak.

That's pretty much what my ears have told me, regarding the difference between the narrow and wide aperture pickups. The narrow aperture pickups seem to have a lower resonant peak and less treble detail; the wide aperture pickups seem to go up further, and sound "cleaner".

I've heard rumors that there may be more than one type of narrow and wide armature, depending on the pickup model. But I'm not quite ready to give up my SB4250 to find out!

Belwar, thanks again for posting the pictures!

[belwar]

That's pretty much what my ears have told me, regarding the difference between the narrow and wide aperture pickups. The narrow aperture pickups seem to have a lower resonant peak and less treble detail; the wide aperture pickups seem to go up further, and sound "cleaner".

I've heard rumors that there may be more than one type of narrow and wide armature, depending on the pickup model. But I'm not quite ready to give up my SB4250 to find out!

Belwar, thanks again for posting the pictures!

well if you do decide to let me know and i'll give it the full scientific run through

[12Bass]

Never did get to hear the Lane Poor narrow apertures; I was under the impression that they had more highs than the wides, but could be wrong. I have a pair of M3.5Ws in my Hamer Chaparral 12-string and tried an SB3.950 (W) in my Pedulla Rapture 5. Originally, I started with an M3.5HB in the bridge position of my Hamer, but found that I preferred the the tonality of the wide over the humbucker (the HB had a serious low-midrange hump, while the wides sound flatter). Years ago Sheldon Dingwall and I spent some time comparing the LP wides with various Bartolinis and found that the LP had a much more open sound - the difference was similar to comparing a bass with old dead strings, and one with brand new ones.

One problem which I've never been able to solve is that the LP M3.5Ws are susceptible to EMI from dimmers and other sources of electrical "bizz". Even went to the lengths of full copper shielding, star grounding, and ferrite beads on the pickup leads. The SB3.950 which I tried in my Pedulla had this problem as well, which rendered it unusable for a regular gigging instrument. The SB sounded great, but wasn't compensated for the radius of the fingerboard. Eventually, after trying a Bartolini CX in my Pedulla, I ended up with a Q-tuner BL-5, which is somewhat similar to the LP wide aperture sound, but higher output, relatively noise free, and can be adjusted to match the radius of most any instrument.

[David King]

Bartolini pickups have among the flattest response curves of any of the bass pickups. LP's by contrast have a huge hump...

Here are three scans:
An LP 4.0 HB
A Bartolini P4xxCX B
and a Nordstrand Split coil (series)

[12Bass]

Bartolini pickups have among the flattest response curves of any of the bass pickups. LP's by contrast have a huge hump.

That hump in the Lane Poor HB seems to be in the 7 - 12 kHz "air" region, while the fundamentals and main harmonics are reasonably flat. It's been years, however, that's not how the HB sounded to me. From what I recall, the wide apertures sounded pretty close to the acoustic sound of the instrument, while the HBs sounded noticeably forward in the low midrange, perhaps a second harmonic emphasis? I'm also wondering how those graphs compare to the real world frequency response. Anyone have any plots for the LP wide aperture?

The CX doesn't seem to have the clarity of the Q-tuner or LP wide. Even though it is clearer than the darker C-coil, the CX still sounds somewhat dampened and "soft" in the highs. It's somewhat difficult to put into words. In comparison, the LP and Q-tuner sound noticeably "quicker" and more detailed, with the Q-tuner seemingly extending even higher than the LP wide.

[David King]

Here's a Lane Poor Jazz Bar (which I think is a narrow),
a Villex J,
a Fender J
and Fender P

I know there is a scan of a Q-tuner XXL but I don't find it.
I don't seem to have the LP 4.0w scan either...

[David King]

The Villex is the only outlier with it's peak down by 4500Hz. Mainly the Fenders have a whole lot more output.

[Joe Gwinn]

Steel is going to raise the inductance and that would raise the resonant peak frequency?

Usually, steel will increase the inductance, which will lower the resonant frequency.