Source for stamping covers?

[belwar]

Does anyone have a decent domestic source for stamping Nickel Silver covers/parts? I'm *considering* having some covers made. I was going to try to do it myself, but I realized its easier to throw money at the problem.

Anyone?

[Possum]

....

Do a search here on the forum, search for "deep draw covers" which is kind of what they are. A couple companies names were mentioned. Yes, it will take money. I know Tom Holmes makes his own in his garage, so mostly you need to find a company that will take the time to do what you ask and do them right. I think what pickup makers want in a cover isn't what any of these companies usually do for deep draw boxes. What I hate about the cheap commercial ones is the concave sides and roundish tops. I wonder if there is some annealing process that happens, maybe it takes more than just one punch to do it. Holmes told me his take a long time to make, he won't talk about how he does his.

[NightWinder]

PrOCesS

Whatever you do, source the right Nickel content...I've tried different stamps.2 process, and 3 process and if you are doing them yourself be prepared. I could have saved time getting the right material. If you do get going yourself, get some same gauge Brass also to prototype on. You'll save money

[belwar]

That is very good advise! Thanks!

[GuitarmanUK]

Whatever you do, source the right Nickel content...

Years ago, I remember buying a nickel/zinc/copper alloy which was more or less nickel colour and polished up very nicely, can't remember the percentage nickel.
Just wondering, does anyone know what alloy is generally used?

[defaced]

I remember buying a nickel/zinc/copper alloy which was more or less nickel colour and polished up very nicely, can't remember the percentage nickel

Do you have a piece you'd be willing to sacrifice? Optical emission spectroscopy will be able to nail those alloys with ease. Probably would cost around 100 bucks to have it done at a met lab.

[GuitarmanUK]

Do you have a piece you'd be willing to sacrifice? Optical emission spectroscopy will be able to nail those alloys with ease. Probably would cost around 100 bucks to have it done at a met lab.

Thanks, I've probably got some scrap bits somewhere kicking about, but I do know which company it came from, so I could find out what that alloy is.

I was just interested what alloy Gibson, Fender etc would have used...

[David Schwab]

Just wondering, does anyone know what alloy is generally used?

Nickel silver is usually 60% Copper, 20% Nickel, 20% Zinc.

[Artur pickupmaker]

Nickel silver is also known as "alpaca" alloy.
Most Fender Tele neck pickup cover is brass.
Gibson says nickel silver is soniclly "more transparent" than brass.

[David King]

I know a guy with a 25 ton press for sale. It would probably do the job but just barely. I believe it's hydraulic. I see 40 ton ones on craigslist all the time. $850 -3500.

[Possum]

....

Alpaca alloy? Thats a new one me. In the jewelry trade nickel silver is known as German Silver. There definitely are alot of variations of it. Mojo did some bucker baseplates, that were real yellowish, probably more copper maybe, they fixed the problem but I guess you do have to be careful, should be softer for stamping. One thing about stamping and why I mentioned wondering if Holmes is using some kind of annealing maybe, is once you punch those suckers into covers, they are VERY work hardened and if the tops or sides aren't flat it would take a tremendous amount of force to further flatten them. I found this out when I decided to try bead blasting them for a matte look. The beads I think relaxed the tension on the side being blasted and the cover would seriously distort unless I also blasted the inside, I abandoned the idea eventually. I think in a multi process deep draw the punches and mold are heated, if you do a search on the last thread we did on this subject, one company is mentioned and their website has info on how the process is done in 3 steps. Maybe you could find some old timer and find out how stuff like that was done in the 50's because those old PAF covers aren't like modern factory pickup covers at all. The covers we get now also have stretch marks or vertical scratches on the sides if you look close that I don't see on old PAF covers either....

[LtKojak]

Nickel silver is also known as "alpaca" alloy.

I don't think that's the case...

[Joe Gwinn]

Mojo did some bucker baseplates, that were real yellowish, probably more copper maybe, they fixed the problem but I guess you do have to be careful, should be softer for stamping.

Sounds like it was verging into brass, at the loss of "sonic transparency". The lower the eddy currents, the greater the transparency.

The way to tell is to ask the vendor what the bulk resistivity of the metal is. The higher the value, the lower the eddy currents, the more transparent the cover. The units of resistivity are ohm-centimeters or microhm-centimeters or ohm-meters or the like.

One thing about stamping and why I mentioned wondering if Holmes is using some kind of annealing maybe, is once you punch those suckers into covers, they are VERY work hardened and if the tops or sides aren't flat it would take a tremendous amount of force to further flatten them. I found this out when I decided to try bead blasting them for a matte look. The beads I think relaxed the tension on the side being blasted and the cover would seriously distort unless I also blasted the inside, I abandoned the idea eventually.

One can anneal nickel silver pretty easily: heat to a dull red heat (or just below) and quench in water. Yes, quench in water, the exact opposite of what one does to anneal ferrous alloys.

Be careful with the hot metal - brass can be "hot short", which means it is mechanically weak while hot.

[GuitarmanUK]

Nickel silver is also known as "alpaca" alloy.

According to Wiki entry for nickel silver: "Other common names for this alloy are German silver, paktong, new silver and alpacca (or alpaca)...
Alpacca became a widely known name in northern Europe for nickel silver after it was used as a trademark brand by the manufacturer Berndorf"

Most Fender Tele neck pickup cover is brass.
Gibson says nickel silver is soniclly "more transparent" than brass.

I would think brass is a bit easier for deep drawing.

[Possum]

...

Yes the yellowish baseplates were doing the eddy current bop dance on the LCR meter, pissed me off because I was doing an experiment and shouldn't have used it. Nickel silver you probably want to anneal and quench in jeweler's pickle or you'll get firescale (oxidized copper) like you do with sterling silver. Thats just a guess, never worked with the stuff, in the jewelry world its considered junk metal really.