Tone cap values on mongrel guitar

[picknconk]

Hi Folks,
This is my first time around here. I've put together a Kay Red Devil I'm trying to turn into a Guild/Gretsch mongrel. I've got a High Sensitivity Filtertron in the neck, and a DynaSonic in the bridge. All my pots are 500K Audio, and my caps are ,047. It ain't happenen' yet. Nuklheadcentral suggests REALLY small value caps for versatility, and I see that Gretsch uses .022. Nuklhead says use like .0068. Also, when I'm in the center select position, unless the Filtertron is full-on, it vanishes in the mix. I'm out in left field here, where to start? Thanks in advence for any and all help

[belwar]

0.0068 is quite small for a tone cap. I believe most tone caps fall in the 0.01uf to 0.068 uf range. 0.047 is very common but takes off alot of the highs.

The good things about caps are they are cheap. For the sake of trying values you can buy cheapo ceramics, then when you have the value you like you can "upgrade" to poly or PIO or whatever you like..

I would start with 0.033uf, then drop down to 0.027, then 0.022 and then 0.015. The lower the number, the less highs are rolled off. I like 0.015 in the neck and 0.022uf in the bridge myself.

[David Schwab]

I like 0.015 in the neck and 0.022uf in the bridge myself.

+1

I even like .022 on some of my basses. Both pickups on with the .022 tone rolled down sounds really cool.

[Possum]

....

.022uf is a real common vintage value tone cap for guitar, I'd star there.... .047uf kills treble, especially with any kind of buckers. Best used for single coils.

[belwar]

The higher value caps seem to work OK with taller coils. I dont know if its so much with buckers specifically, but rather with tall narrow coils.

Claptons "woman" tone was done with a 0.015uf if I remember right.

[belwar]

+1

I even like .022 on some of my basses. Both pickups on with the .022 tone rolled down sounds really cool.

I've been working alot on those wal type pickups and in theory I think they will work well with the lower value caps. I bought a BOATLOAD of old paper in oil caps in those values and im excited to try them with it (in a passive situation that is).

[picknconk]

Great, thanks everybody, now about the taper of the pots. If everything seems to happen all at once at the end of the travel(8-10) of the pot, do I want to go to linear to slow things down and give me more adjustability? As soon as I back off the neck Filtertron, the bridge Dynasonic takes over. Am I trying to use a horse and a squirrel in tandem? The Filtertron seems to have lots of output, but it is 4.1K, while the DynaSonic is 8K. It's the center position that's making me nuts....Bob

[Possum]

...

Belwar, use your Extech's capacitance mode to sort the caps. The old ones drift and, some may have leakage, not sure how you even test for that, but they are seldom right on the nose.

I heard that too about the "woman tone" thing, have no idea where that info came from. Have you seen the YouTube demo where he demo's woman tone on his SG? It does kinda sound like the tone caps might be in that range maybe....

[Joe Gwinn]

Belwar, use your Extech's capacitance mode to sort the caps. The old ones drift and, some may have leakage, not sure how you even test for that, but they are seldom right on the nose.

Yes. Significant leakage can be detected using the Extech by tracking the D (dissipation) value of the capacitor. Each capacitor type (oiled paper, waxed paper, mylar, ceramic, et al) will have a different typical D value, so look for large deviations from typical for the type.

[David Schwab]

I heard that too about the "woman tone" thing, have no idea where that info came from. Have you seen the YouTube demo where he demo's woman tone on his SG? It does kinda sound like the tone caps might be in that range maybe....

In that Farewell Concert film, Clapton showed that he used both pickups on with the tones turned down. If someone where to imitate that with one pickup, I guess a 0.015µF would work.

Having both pickups on, as well as both tone controls, changes the effect of the cap.

[picknconk]

I'm trying to be Carl Perkins, that's why I'm using the Gretsch-like parts. The Woman Tone is the furthest thing from my mind. I'll go with the Brighter value caps, but, again, is there any merit in using linear volume pots to get a better blend in the center selector position? I'd like to use a Blender pot, but the only one I've found is a sub standard one at Antique Electronic Supply. I was thinking a Blender, Master Volume, and Master tone like an old Gretsch might be nifty. Can I say nifty here?...Bob

[David Schwab]

The tone caps aren't the problem. The one pickup is just over powering the other one. With 500K controls, the effect of the tone caps with the control on 10 will be negligible.

I find linear volume controls work better if you are trying to blend pickups, such as on a Jazz bass.

Also there are two ways to wire two volume controls. You should wire them like a Jazz bass or Rickenbacker, and not like a Les Paul. That way you can turn one pickup all the way down without effecting the other one.

[picknconk]

David,
I feel I've gotten my answer here. The condition of pegging the pot which negates the tonal effect is what I thought I was working against. I don't know Jazz Basses or Ricks, but I had this thing wired so one pickup does not turn off the other..."independent". I do need to brighten this guitar, so I'll try
.022 caps with linear volume pots. I just wanted a smarter input than my own thank you. Any advantage to linear tone pots for more graduation of tone? Any harm in it? I'm almost there!!!! Sure glad i found you guys!!...Bob

[Possum]

...

You might want to see if you can find a good quality ceramic tone cap. I disagree with Dave, tone caps when the tone pot is on 10 does have a noticeable effect, while its not in your face, using a larger tone cap value WILL take away treble edge that you are obviously looking for. Probably less noticeable with single coils but with buckers it can make the difference between wanting to play your guitar alot and thinking there is something missing you can't put your finger on. I do an awful lot of prototyping with humbuckers, like every freaking day lately, I make sure my wiring harness is vintage correct for the cleanest sound and that the tone caps are .022uf paper in oil. Ceramic tone caps will give you an extra edge but they can also be bad sounding unless you ask around to find something thats not too harsh. Good luck....