the heretic recants

[ShannonH]

Hi All,
So, I have recanted my idea of sharing a database of info about pickups almost completely. Here's why:

I have approached several guitar shops in the area about carrying my pickups on consignment, and doing repairs/rewinds on pickups. I was somewhat stunned to hear that two of them immediately went out to buy their own winders.

Not exactly sure how to respond, but I'm not thrilled. I sure don't feel like providing hard earned info for free now. Thanks for reading my rant.

Shannon

I'm also pondering completely encasing my pickups in black epoxy under black covers. Seems to work for EMG and Barto.

[David King]

Shannon,
The way I read this you'll just want to get into the winder business. I hope they didn't drop their hard earned cash on Schatten winders.

[Possum]

...

Well why not. Winding pickups is easy, you don't need any experience at all to make world class sounding pickups. Its just some wire around some magnets, just wind as much wire as you can get on and Eddie Van Halen will show up at your front door panting to get in. I would love to be there when the reality check comes in the mail, LOL. "Hey I didn't think this stuff was so hard, what did I do WRONG?"

[Magnut]

Ahhh,, you have hit on a subject I have wanted to bring up. Selling at the local shop..

I have thought of doing this and in fact talked to a few. Most say they don't sell very many or are mostly interested in carrying "big brands".

I have talked to a couple who say they may be interested. I wanted to know how many others here do this. If you do, what sort of mark up are they expecting to get. My guess is 100%.

Do you set the price? That would definatley be a stipulation for me. How about consignment? Is it even worth dealing with these folks?

As for those who go out and buy winders because they just came to the realization that they have a gap in their service, oh well... They will try, skimp by, figure out that their not into it or have too many other things to do and the customers who use them will figure it out too. Reputation is your best asset, you just gotta let that stand on its own.. It does suck though..

[bfhoo]

I was somewhat stunned to hear that two of them immediately went out to buy their own winders.

Maybe you should wait month or two and visit them again - maybe then they are much more willing to do that thing outsourced? ...

[David Schwab]

I was somewhat stunned to hear that two of them immediately went out to buy their own winders.

Some stores try and do their own guitar repairs too. It doesn't always mean they are good at it!

I'm also pondering completely encasing my pickups in black epoxy under black covers. Seems to work for EMG and Barto.

Works for me too!

Do you think they copied your pickups? Or just want to try their hand at doing their own?

[Possum]

....

You're assuming that a total newbie even knows what they are looking at. A real PAF and StewMac clone, they look the same right? Thats how it was when I started out, a strat pickup is a strat pickup, they are all the same. I had a few local customers tell me I should put my stuff in local stores, but when I went in there they were totally disinterested, I think the way it works is you may have international recognition for your work but in your own home town....how could your stuff be any good since they never heard of you. They WILL want your stuff at half off too, its not worth it, we put way more time into what we do than any of the bigger companies, and thats our strength, we know what we're selling, factory stuff its a toss up, you're getting something designed for mass appeal and maybe the steel they used that month was a batch not suited for pickups. It happens.....

[salvarsan]

So, I have recanted my idea of sharing a database of info about pickups almost completely.

So, you have no faith that your full-time efforts on pickup building are better than a couple of dilettantes with Schatten winders.


Now that your vanity is hurt, you've lost the desire to follow through on the pickup database.

Perhaps you need to re-assess your level of commitment.


I'll put it simply: Don't confuse knowledge with skill+ability.


-drh

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

I did sales for a long time, and feel a need to stick up for the local stores across the country on this one. It is really REALLY hard to sell pickups in a retail setting. If you give lots of information, you just confuse people, customers leave your establishment having not bought anything and perhaps feeling a bit disenchanted by the whole shopping process. The average customer isn't an audiophile or luthier, so lots of "selling points" are likely to give headaches. With major brands there is the benefit of the sites, great marketing, sound clips, and endorsements. If someone says "Joey Shredmaster uses this one" then a customer (accurately or not) has an idea what said pickup sounds like, what kind of gear it works well with, and why styles it may be suited for. The most successful pickup sellers in retail usually stick to a few basic models that the particular sales staff likes and can offer based on personal testaments. They can describe a pickup better (because it is in their own axe) and it means giving easier choices to customers. "If you like a more classic bright sound, try this one - if you like something a little meatier but less vintagey, this one is my recommendation". Throwing a new brand on the shelves that they don't have any experience with won't actually sell the pickups, it'll just get them onto the shelves increasing their overhead. I'm not poo-pooing small winders, but there are serious marketing challenges that I think retailers are legitimately considering.

[ShannonH]

I wanted to know how many others here do this. If you do, what sort of mark up are they expecting to get. My guess is 100%.

They mostly want 30% markup, so if you have to have $45 to keep doing what you like, they'll mark it up to 60-65.

I am providing a demo guitar with pickups as well, so folks can try them. We'll see how that goes.

Do you think they copied your pickups? Or just want to try their hand at doing their own?

I think they just want to try it, and possibly do rewinds.

So, you have no faith that your full-time efforts on pickup building are better than a couple of dilettantes with Schatten winders.

Now that your vanity is hurt, you've lost the desire to follow through on the pickup database.

I'll put it simply: Don't confuse knowledge with skill+ability.

-drh

Quite Frankly, it's not my vanity that is hurt, but my trust. Maybe I'm too much of an idealist, but at least one of the shops that did this had already given me a verbal on sending repairs my way. The reason for not doing the DB has to do with something another person brought up, that is the ability and time to find the info you need, and the smarts and commitment to wind a pickup. Something to do with keeping the dilettantes off the bandwagon.

Never said I wouldn't make such a database, just said I might not share it on an internet page.

Peace

[voodoochild]

Just stick with it man. If you are good and passionate about it, you will make it. Just like building guitars, 100 people think its easy and a good idea, etc, but they quickly get a bad reputation if they aren't good and they disappear. I have seen it a hundred times as a repairman. If you are good, you will become the man, the guru, the one that everyone trusts on a local and eventually beyond that.

[salvarsan]

...Maybe I'm too much of an idealist, but at least one of the shops that did this had already given me a verbal on sending repairs my way....

Put on your big girl panties and deal with it.



Consider this: *you paid exactly nothing to discover two untrustable merchants.
They clearly need to pay cash up front for your products.


As for keeping the dilettantes of the 'bandwagon', don't even bother because they are self-removing. *If your pickups are worth anything at all, someone's dissatisfaction with dilettantes is a fine sales motivator for a good boutique pickup.


-drh

[ShannonH]

Put on your big girl panties and deal with it.
-drh

I guess I consider myself put in my place. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I'm trying to not become the cynical, jaded type that most people expect a small business man to be. But thanks for the input.

[Zhangliqun]

I agree with others -- this sounds like a wait 'em out situation. They will discover as Possum said that there's a helluva lot more to this winding thing than they thought, and if they haven't lost your business card, they will soon call with a vastly greater appreciation of your art, and and an understanding that it's NOT something that can be just casually added to the service menu at a music store.

Of course, in some cases, some will discover they actually have a talent and a passion for it, but such cases will be rare.

[Possum]

...

I remember my first winding experience. Broke the wire about 7 times, I wonder if they'll last that long