New CuNiFe Wide Range Humbuckers exist!

[Tele-Bob]

Hey guys, I haven't been around for a while. Been busy with a little project. I finally got my hands on of some CuNiFe rod in 1/4" diameter and made some parts. Check it out.



In our research we found there are actually 3 different bobbin specs from Fender, and that they used poly and enamel wire during the years the Wide Range Humbucker was being manufactured. But perhaps the strangest thing is the thread size. The closest I can tell, the CuNiFe magnets are a 5.25mm .09 thread pitch thread. The reason I know this is because, in an effort to make our magnets interchangeable with the vintage original, we had to "single point" cut the magnet threads to this unusual size before they would fit a vintage bobbin perfectly.

In an effort to make our bobbins last longer, we tapered the threads just a little so the magnets will hold tight and not get real loose as many of the originals have.

Anyway, there it is. We have a very limited amount of CuNiFe rod and regrettably none of it is for sale. Sorry. It took me two years to find this stuff!

Here's a sound clip of the pickups: SoundClick artist: The Telenator Trio - page with MP3 music downloads

That's my 72 re-Issue Thinline through my Rivera Chubster 40, clean channel and a dash of reverb. The board EQ was dead flat and there were no effects used at all. The clip is raw and honest. Enjoy!

[trevorus]

That thing sounds hot

[Mike Sulzer]

Why do you want to use a material that makes weak permanent magnets, has low permeability, and is difficult to find?

[dodona]

really cool sounding Pickup

[Tele-Bob]

Why do you want to use a material that makes weak permanent magnets, has low permeability, and is difficult to find?

Because this pickup hasn't been made in 30 years. When I was finally able to get my hands on some CuNiFe we just couldn't resist. It's a cool project, that's all.

Thanks dodona. We're really pleased with the results. It's a very unique sounding pickup and fast becoming my favorite!

[David Schwab]

Why do you want to use a material that makes weak permanent magnets, has low permeability, and is difficult to find?

I guess because he wants to recreate the original pickups, which ironically weren't all that popular at the time. At least that's how I remember it.

But that's the way the vintage market goes. Look at Gibson mini humbuckers. Al the people I know that had LP Deluxes had full size humbuckers installed. Now they are getting popular again.

[dodona]

I had one in the 70ths. I played a electric guitar made by myself and everbody loved the sound of the Fender Wide Range Humbuckers.

[belwar]

just for shits and giggles I've been looking at the originals. The magnets wont be made any more because the material is worked like hot rolled steel. Modern magnet manufacturers dont have the capabilities to make the stuff.

There is aparently two manufactuers of sea water fittings that make cunife fittings (pronounced cue-nih-fee).. one in turkey and the other in italy I think. Aparently cunife makes great piping for sea water and brakish water. I'm currently trying to buy some of this pipe to have it analyzed to determine if the composition is the same. If it is, maybe I can cut up the pipe and lathe it. I'd like to make a mini bucker for a tele with a cunife slug, powered by an alnico magnet. Could be a fun project.

bel

[Tele-Bob]

just for shits and giggles I've been looking at the originals. The magnets wont be made any more because the material is worked like hot rolled steel. Modern magnet manufacturers dont have the capabilities to make the stuff.

There is aparently two manufactuers of sea water fittings that make cunife fittings (pronounced cue-nih-fee).. one in turkey and the other in italy I think. Aparently cunife makes great piping for sea water and brakish water. I'm currently trying to buy some of this pipe to have it analyzed to determine if the composition is the same. If it is, maybe I can cut up the pipe and lathe it. I'd like to make a mini bucker for a tele with a cunife slug, powered by an alnico magnet. Could be a fun project.

bel

belwar, the tough thing about CuNiFe is that the magnetic polarity needs to be "oriented" when it's manufactured. They do this during the final annealing process where they apply a strong magnetic force to the material and heat it to a specific temperature over a specified period of time to created the magnetic polarity. If the orientation is not correct for the use you're intending, the material will not work. I had to test the material I bought to be certain and it's fine.

There are companies who will make CuNiFe rod and orient it properly but my last quote was around $60,000 for a minimum order. It's out there, but it's extremely expensive.

The original Fender magnets appear to have been roll threaded and vary about .005 in diameter. That's HUGE when you're talking thread sizes! The ones we made are "single point" cut on a lathe, one at a time so we can match the original thread exactly. Then we tapered the threaded holes in the bobbins to ensure a tight fit for many years to come.

One other interesting point we discovered is, CuNiFe doesn't hold it's magnetic charge as well as other materials. We have 6 original WRHB's on hand and found that ALL them were suffering from weak magnets. They were in fact about 30% to 40% of their potential.

We feel this is one of the reasons people will try these vintage pickups and not be very impressed with them.

Another reason is that Fender used at least 3 different bobbin specs, and freely switched between poly and enamel wire. We use enamel wire, and one specific bobbin spec because it sounds the best out of all the combinations we've tried.

Our brand new pickup sounds perhaps a little better than the original because it's hand wound, the magnets are fully charged, and the attention to detail in assembling these is well beyond what they received on the assembly line. But, that's just my opinion. I think it's safe to say among other pickup makers here, that a hand wound custom pickup generally sounds better than something off the assembly line.

Anyway, there it is.

[belwar]

Our brand new pickup sounds perhaps a little better than the original because it's hand wound, the magnets are fully charged, and the attention to detail in assembling these is well beyond what they received on the assembly line. But, that's just my opinion. I think it's safe to say among other pickup makers here, that a hand wound custom pickup generally sounds better than something off the assembly line.

Balogne. That "hand winding" thing is so overrated - particularly with humbuckers. My machine would humbuckers sound WAaaaAaaaaayy better than my hand wound (despite a valiant effort). Look at PAF's - the so called king of pickups is machine wound pickups.

The magnet thing I can understand, but hand winding improving that pickup? I dont think so. virtually every *famous* pickup out there is machine wound with the exception of the early fender pickups. PAF's, The Ryhthm Chief, Filtertrons, anything dearmond, P90's. Im not yet convinced about the benefits of hand winding on the old fender stuff. I have to determine that via blind testing.

Dont get me wrong, I dont want this to seem as a slag against you as I think your re-creation as a whole is excellent. The parts and the materials look right and your aquisition of cunife is a huge marketing advantage, but the lack of a mechanical winder does not a better pickup make in my own opinion. Your mileage may vary.

[belwar]

belwar, the tough thing about CuNiFe is that the magnetic polarity needs to be "oriented" when it's manufactured. They do this during the final annealing process where they apply a strong magnetic force to the material and heat it to a specific temperature over a specified period of time to created the magnetic polarity. If the orientation is not correct for the use you're intending, the material will not work. I had to test the material I bought to be certain and it's fine.

Totally understood - Though my use of it is not as a magnet per-se.

Magnetic fields themselves dont have a tone, It's just a field. What does have a tone is changing the alloys in the pickup (Or the alloys in the magnet of a pickup). My intention is to use the alloy cunife but only as a pole piece - instead driving the cunife with another magnet like Alnico (Or maybe ceramic as that wouldn't alter the inductance of the pickup).

My personal thought is to make a mini bucker for a tele neck position with something a little different.

So in my own instance, it is irrelevant if the material is anisotropic or isotropic. It may not even work :>

[JGundry]

Orienting of Alnico is done after the magnet is cast. I would think that CuNiFe would also be oriented in the heat treating after the rods are made as well. It should be pretty easy to get a magnet maker to orient the material if you supply them the rods.

[Tele-Bob]

Orienting of Alnico is done after the magnet is cast. I would think that CuNiFe would also be oriented in the heat treating after the rods are made as well. It should be pretty easy to get a magnet maker to orient the material if you supply them the rods.

True enough. I had looked into Arnokrome at one point and found that like many magnet materials, the orientation is done after the sintered metals are molded. The problem we had with the Arnokrome though, is the material is really gummy to machine. It will take roll threading just fine and then it needs to be sent back to Arnold for the final hardening and magnetic orientation. But setting up a roll threading operation of a custom thread size for a 30 pickup run is just cost prohibitive.

CuNiFe has the advantage of having been magnetically oriented in it's final state. Then it can be machined or roll threaded before it's magnetized. Arnokrome is too hard to work with once it's had it's final heat treatment.

[JGundry]

I would think you could make any of these on a automatic screw machine and have cut threads and then orient them after they are machined. You would avoid any work hardening from have the threads rolled as well. Are you sure the originals had rolled rather than cut threads? I would think that these would be the sort of part that would be cut rather than done with a cold header.

[flyneye]

just for shits and giggles I've been looking at the originals. The magnets wont be made any more because the material is worked like hot rolled steel. Modern magnet manufacturers dont have the capabilities to make the stuff.

There is aparently two manufactuers of sea water fittings that make cunife fittings (pronounced cue-nih-fee)..
bel

I dunno about maritime cunife fittings
At my previous job we just called it a steel alloy Cu= Copper Ni= Nickel Fe=Iron, just like AlNiCo is Aluminum Nickel Cobalt. Our Niton guns would tell us what kind and what other elements were present to the tenthousanth percent. Now that would be something to shoot the part and tell what is all in the alloy like a recipe.