New CuNiFe Wide Range Humbuckers exist!

[belwar]

I dunno about maritime cunife fittings
At my previous job we just called it a steel alloy Cu= Copper Ni= Nickel Fe=Iron, just like AlNiCo is Aluminum Nickel Cobalt. Our Niton guns would tell us what kind and what other elements were present to the tenthousanth percent. Now that would be something to shoot the part and tell what is all in the alloy like a recipe.

I have a place I use that charges $40 a sample to do those alloy tests.. The X-ray spectroscopy and the full vapor analysis as well. I think i've run about 40 different parts ranging from the major PAF components, Wal Bass keepers & screws, to vintage P-13 parts. I think the metal analysis has helped quite a bit in developing what I do. I'm currently running a batch that include magnets from three tele bridge pickups ranging from 1950 to 1953, as well as metal from a 53 tele bridge and corresponding saddle/screw. I'm really only interested in items in the metal that are .01% or greater so this is quite effective. I would love one of those guns though!

[Mike Sulzer]

It's a cool project, that's all.

Yes, it is, but what was the original goal? Using a magnetic material that could be machined more easily than most (for the threads)? Now one could use a steel screw with a neo disk on the bottom.

Another possibility would relate the material's conductivity. Is it different from alnico and steel?

[salvarsan]

Orienting of Alnico is done after the magnet is cast. I would think that CuNiFe would also be oriented in the heat treating after the rods are made as well. It should be pretty easy to get a magnet maker to orient the material if you supply them the rods.

Minor clarification: Alnico alloys may be directionally cooled in a magnetic field to orient the crystallization/precipitation of alloy grains. This is called field-cooling for short.

See:
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t160/#post1254

Alnico 2/3/4 is not field-cooled; it has two distinct alloy crystals in a non-oriented grain pattern; one alloy is more coercive, the other more magnetic. It can be magnetized in any direction.

Field-cooled Alnico 5(and higher) is mono-crystalline, and the crystals are oriented as you'd expect, and can only be magnetized along the axis of solidification.

Field-cooled Alnico types are better permanent magnets than ones that aren't, so much so that many of you builders partially demagnetize them to get the sound you want.

-drh

[Tele-Bob]

I would think you could make any of these on a automatic screw machine and have cut threads and then orient them after they are machined. You would avoid any work hardening from have the threads rolled as well. Are you sure the originals had rolled rather than cut threads? I would think that these would be the sort of part that would be cut rather than done with a cold header.

The only way to thread hardened magnet materials (like alnico) is thread grinding. It's a very expensive process. Although Arnokrome is malleable before it's final heat treating and magnetic orientation, it's very gummy to machine. It doesn't thread well at all using conventional dies.

You cannot roll thread or use cutting dies on hardened magnets. They just shatter and alnico is too soft to work before the final heat treating.

[Tele-Bob]

Yes, it is, but what was the original goal? Using a magnetic material that could be machined more easily than most (for the threads)? Now one could use a steel screw with a neo disk on the bottom.

Another possibility would relate the material's conductivity. Is it different from alnico and steel?

The point was to re-create the original WRHB as closely as possible (within reason) because it was a good challenge. I love a good project and truly enjoy the whole process of discovery and then taking what I've learned and making it into something tangible. We now have a new guitar pickup based on a well recognized design that hasn't been manufactured in 30 years and no one else in the world is producing it. It's a unique, fun project that has taken countless hours and some investment to complete. I get a real kick of doing things like this.

Here's a couple of my scratch built guitars. I built these because I wanted a Ric 360 with an adult size neck and a 25 1/2" scale. Some will say I'm crazy expending such efforts. All I can say is, I love a good project!



These guitars took me about 8 months to complete. I had a Rickenbacker 360 and after a year of owning it, decided it was basically unplayable! So I made some templates and the rest is history. I don't sell any of the guitars I build but the guys at Rickenbacker got real tweeked over this just the same.

[Mike Sulzer]

Those are really nice guitars, and I am really impressed with the pickups project. What I am wondering about is why the original pickups used this material.

Two possible reasons are that one can machine threads on it, and maybe the conductivity is different from other materials.

[David Schwab]

I built these because I wanted a Ric 360 with an adult size neck...

I like the Ric bass necks, but I can't play the guitars at all, and I don't have particularly large hands. Way too narrow. They are almost as bad as Mosrites.

Nice job by the way.

[David Schwab]

What I am wondering about is why the original pickups used this material.

So they could have adjustable pole pieces without using steel poles. Why bother? Who knows.

I find adjustable poles on humbuckers to be useless. They could have just used alnico rods.

[David King]

Nice looking guitars Tele-Bob,
Would CuNiFe have a significantly different inductance effects?

[Mike Sulzer]

Nice looking guitars Tele-Bob,
Would CuNiFe have a significantly different inductance effects?

Apparently CuNiFe does have lower permeability than steel. How much I do not know. This would tend to lower the inductance somewhat, perhaps leading to a brighter sound. The output could be somewhat lower too. if the conductivity is lower than steel, then the eddy currents in the cores would be less. Thus, the Q would be higher, and the sound different in the highs, and maybe in the mids, too.

[Tele-Bob]

Nice looking guitars Tele-Bob,
Would CuNiFe have a significantly different inductance effects?

Thanks man. I find that the WRHB's have a truly unique sound that is largely due to the CuNiFe magnets however, we have gotten great results using alnico as well. The trick with using alnico 5 is in the magnet length. We cut them to .545 long and then round and slot the ends to look like screws. They don't turn but they look cool!

After experimenting with alnico 5 for a few months we were ready to give up on trying to capture the sound of the CuNiFe until we tried cutting the magnets down. That did the trick!

Here's a sound clip of our neck position WRHB mod using alnico 5 magnets. I played the clip straight into a Deluxe Reverb re-issue with no effects but reverb. This went straight into a friends home recorder.

In most people's opinions, this pickup really captures the vibe of a vintage WRHB.

http://home.comcast.net/~nicholas.ca...usic/WRHB7.mp3

[jason lollar]

The originals WRHB are actually good sounding pickups in the right amp- I think they sound better in something like a fender twin reverb- something that wont get too sloppy in the bass.
I had similar results with al 5 as telenator.
I hope your not making those covers with Fender embossed on them----- YIKES!

[Tele-Bob]

The originals WRHB are actually good sounding pickups in the right amp- I think they sound better in something like a fender twin reverb- something that wont get too sloppy in the bass.
I had similar results with al 5 as telenator.
I hope your not making those covers with Fender embossed on them----- YIKES!

Nah Jason, anyone interested has to supply their own cover to avoid a trademark infringement. We make a vintage accurate pickup and the customer's Fender chrome cover fits right on it. Our threaded CuNiFe magnets are also interchangeable with the vintage originals. (no small feat!)

This is not a Fender product. The customer supplies their own chrome cover. No way we'd slap Fender covers on there and just sell 'em like that. "YIKES" is right. It makes things a bit inconvenient for those who'd like a real CuNiFe pickup but, it's a different market as well. So far, only two people have complained.

The biggest problem we've found with peoples perception of the original WRHB is that Fender made (as far as we can tell), three different versions, (the black bobbin, enamel wire version sounding the best), and that the magnets on our 6 vintage original pickups were all discharged to about 30% of their potential. This just the nature of CuNiFe.

If any of you have an original WRHB that doesn't sound so great, try charging the magnets and it will wake right up! The only problem is, you need an electric magnet charger to do the job. Passive magnets will not charge the CuNiFe sufficiently.

Anyone with these pickups should probably zap the magnets every 15 to 20 years to keep the sounding great.

Jason, are you having any luck with that FeCrCo? We found that it sounds good in hi-gain applications and oddly enough, in jazz guitars where a tightly focused low end is very desirable. It had very limited appeal for us though in other applications. We're not pursuing it any further.

We have a bunch of FeCrCo2 threaded magnets for sale in small quantities if anyone is interested. #10-24 X .420 long - uncharged.

The major diameter is on the low end of the tolerance for a #10-24 at about .182 diameter. Using a common "A" #10-24 tap works well. It's a tap made to the low end of the tolerance.

Shoot me a line if anyone is interested. I would post this in the "For Sale" section but was unable to.

[fieldwrangler]

I find adjustable poles on humbuckers to be useless. They could have just used alnico rods.

David -

Really??

Why?

Bob Palmieri

[David Schwab]

David -

Really??

Why?

I have never found a need to adjust them. Over the years I messed with them, raising them, lowering them, etc. To me they sound best level with the top of the bobbin (the way they come from the factory). I think they also sound better if you cut the part that extends out the back of the pickup off.

Seth Lover pointed out that he didn't want adjustable poles, or even exposed poles, but it was a marketing point since Fender didn't have adjustable poles.

Most of the pickups I make have blades, and they work just fine. I get a nice string to string balance.