Epi humbucker- Upgrade or replace?

[rjb]

If you come from an EE background I don't see the point in asking the things you already know.

My dad was a tech. Although I earned a BSEE during a previous life, I crossed over into "the arts" and haven't worked as an EE for many years. And even though I once took a class in electromagnetic fields- with all the vector calculus I've long forgotten- I have no experience in the practical design and building of guitar pickups.

Further, "mainstream" electronics and "guitar" electronics are different dialects. Guitar electronics seems part of a culture that comprises as much art and tradition (and superstition?) as science. Even something as simple as a standard guitar tone circuit is different from the "proper" LPF they teach in Geek101. And who ever tried to design a better-sounding power transformer?

So that's why I sometimes ask things that (I think) I already know.

BTW, why is excess wax a problem?

[rjb]

I just realized that mentioning cheap imported pickups in the Pickup Builders Forum may be a social blunder. Sorry for the faux pas.

...GFS Dream 180 might fit the bill for a modest sum (Dream 180 Vintage-Voiced Humbucker White Pearl)....

[David Schwab]

I just realized that mentioning cheap imported pickups in the Pickup Builders Forum may be a social blunder. Sorry for the faux pas.

That's not a problem at all. We talk about all kinds of pickups here.

[Dave Kerr]

BTW, why is excess wax a problem?

Some feel that the pickup sounds somewhat lifeless if it's potted solid through to the core, suggesting that a trace amount of microphonics derived from some portion of the coil that can move slightly affects the tone in a pleasing way.

[Ward]

Well here's how I fixed my Epi LP, it came with the usual hot humbuckers, I tossed them straight away but I couldn't get anything to sound decent with this guitar until I decided to put P90s into it. Here's a quick look at how it all went. Because the top is curved I decided that the good old hammer n chisel was the best way to open up the humbucker routs, worked out pretty good. I then cut bits of pine on the table saw to box in the P90s so to speak. Had to make a new pickguard which was a drama getting the P90 cutouts neat but got it in the end. Of course, all the wiring and pots were ditched as well as a new jack socket. I kept the crummy switch for the moment.
Long story short, the guitar is now a keeper with my P90s in it, lots of bite and twang, although I'm not a humbucker dude as such I would have been happy with hummers if any of them sounded any good in this thing which they just didn't but now I really like this one. A bit extreme but well worth the effort, I was seriously considering burning this thing until I got the P90 urge.

[David Schwab]

Well here's how I fixed my Epi LP

Nice paint job!

[rjb]

Nice paint job!

Yowza, love that powder blue sparkle! Now you just need a sharkskin tux to match.

[Chris Turner]

Some feel that the pickup sounds somewhat lifeless if it's potted solid through to the core, suggesting that a trace amount of microphonics derived from some portion of the coil that can move slightly affects the tone in a pleasing way.

Hmm... that would seem to imply that filling a pickup cover with epoxy would do the same thing.

[David Schwab]

Hmm... that would seem to imply that filling a pickup cover with epoxy would do the same thing.

I wax pot my coils for 10 minutes, and I know the wax goes all the way to the core, because I've cut wax impregnated coils off the bobbins. I hear no different between waxed and pre waxed. One thing I have learned (the hard way) is that when just using epoxy, it doesn't get all the way into the coil.

I think excess wax is just a symptom of a poorly made pickup, but not always the real cause of the pickup sounding like crap. I don't have any excess wax on my coils though.

[rjb]

Hmm... that would seem to imply that filling a pickup cover with epoxy would do the same thing.

I suspect the original motive for filling pickup covers with epoxy was to thwart reverse-engineering. It's a PITA to remove, and is the reason I started lurking here learning how to rebuild a pickup- when all I originally wanted to do was get access to both ends of both coils!

What constitutes "excess" wax? If flowing wax through to the core smothers the coil from "breathing", doesn't that imply that the problematic "excess" wax- which is well below the surface- cannot be removed?

Some folks fill the cover with potting material (whether it be wax, epoxy, or whatever) because they want to damp everything (coil, pole pieces, covers, etc.) from vibrating- preventing feedback & squeal. (I don't know enough to agree or disagree; I'm just parroting what I've read).

-rb

[rjb]

Summing up

Thanks, everyone, for the advice and comments- and especially for the pics of that lovely modded Epi Les Paul. You all have helped a chronic waffler make a decision. When I get the time and money, I will:

* Buy replacements (which I have picked out) and not waste time trying to "fix" the stock pups.
* Replace the wire, pots, caps, selector switch, and jack.
* Use a slightly modified version of the wiring scheme which can be found by Googling "Deaf Eddie's ES-333" (20 useful combinations with 4 DPDT pots).
* Possibly, build a Varitone in a box (found in other threads on this forum) for the fun of it.

Thanks again,
-rb

[David Schwab]

Possibly, build a Varitone in a box (found in other threads on this forum) for the fun of it.

I had an '81 LP Standard and rewired it for a master tone and a varitone. That was a very useful mod.

[rjb]

Wrapping up(?)

I had an '81 LP Standard and rewired it for a master tone and a varitone. That was a very useful mod.

I know; that's the thread(s) to which I was referring.
But if I tried to install every possible useful mod, I'd need to build an extension on the guitar!

If and when I build an "outboard" Varitone, I might experiment with an active state-variable filter (replacing the rotary switch with a ganged pot)... but that's another project down the road that I don't even want to discuss right now.

Thanks again,
-rb

[David Schwab]

But if I tried to install every possible useful mod, I'd need to build an extension on the guitar!

I once had about 6 switches and 5 knobs along with three pickups on a Rick bass. I had every combinations of series/parallel and phase, etc. Most of the tones were not all that useable. I'd imagine on guitar you would have more useable tones, since some were too thin on bass.
'
I'm currently wiring up a FirstAct Garagemaster guitar like a Gibson L-6S with the six position pickup selector, and then I'm going to add series/parallel for each pickup and a varitone. That should get all the tones I could ever use.

[RedHouse]

...I once had about 6 switches and 5 knobs along with three pickups on a Rick bass. I had every combinations of series/parallel and phase, etc. Most of the tones were not all that useable...

I too heavily explored that whole scenario since the 70's when we were all doing it. I can say (as you said David) "I had every combination of series/parallel and phase, etc" and although I did not find them "less" usable, I found them a poor substitute for actually using another guitar to get another tone. Everything was always a compromise when using the same guitar with all that switching, it was back then that I realised the pickup didn't "make" the tone, the guitar did, the pickup only helped/hindered what was there to be had, and an Ash strat isn't found in a Mahogany SG much to my shagrin when I was doing say Day Of The Eagle on my SG/Marshall setup.

Back in the 70's I had one (1) main guitar and a backup which didn't always go with me to gig's, I started out using the DiMarzio Dual-Sound after tossing those epoxy filled Gibson (Lawrence designed) pickups, and then extrapolated that concept onto my other pickup coils, and then to the pickups as whole units.

You can see in this picture two small knobs and two mini toggle switches, the mini toggle on the pickguard was the series/parallel for the neck pickup, the mini-toggle by where the tone controlls used to be was the series/parallel for the bridge pickup, the small knob where the neck tone control was is actually a rotary switch that would place the two pickups on series or back to stock gibson wiring. You can just barely make out some pin-head marker-dots on the body next to that switch, one dot was series and two dots were parallel. The last small knob was like a coil pan-pot on the bridge pickup that could bring in some tone when the neck was on.

That was 1978 and with all those options I could use that one SG to emulate many different setups, specially recording with different amps. It wasn't so good at emulating other guitars live with only one amp though.

There's enough room inside the ctrl cavity, no need for an extension.

{Edit} the real laugh in that pic is apparently I was having trouble getting used to the compressed/distorted tone of the treble strings through my old Plexi, check out how I have the poles raised way up and the coils down on the treble side on that Dual-Sound bridge pickup.