Seymour's new cryo-silver pickup

[big_teee]

What I really want to know?
Will these pickups make me play any better?
Over!

[David Schwab]

Now we look at them as having tonal implications.

Implicated is the key word. And red guitars are louder. Rick Turner said so right here.

And don't forget the $60 fake bumblebee caps. They matter as much as the finish does.

You could also say that certain guitar finishes were developed for the auto industry so they are misapplied as well.

Well that metal has to breathe you know... and release moisture. Wet autos sound like crap.

I might, just to piss you off.

Don't feed the trolls. Just throw stones at them.

[Xaar]

David, I don't see why you're defending someone who's hired to defend his company. SD has aan army of lawyers.
All I said that made Frank say "I might just to piss you off" ...was that one day Sd may propose pickups made in gold or something similar.

And stating that I have "obviously never made any pickups" isn't nice, it's even insulting, but you're the mod here apparently, so you can say whatever pleases you.
I could say rude things like "FrankFalbo isn't a real engineer and just recycles age old designs with minor modifications that a 1st year physics student could perform" , but I'll refrain from such low countermeasures and just say that I disagree with his entire line of thought, politely.

It's sad to see that anyone who criticizes a major brand by JUST saying that some arguments aren't proven is worth being banned or notified or whatever. Up to now, cryogenics and silver wire have not been effectively proven to enhance tone, in any serious test and I'd be extremely curious to read any lab paper showing me I'm completely wrong.

Even worse, Im' being called a "troll" and a certain member laughed at my face stating that my link was utter crap:
Speaker Wire

Read it and tell me if you sincerely think this page is misleading or tries to sell you something in particular.
I call it an honest page intended to DIY people who don't have cash to throw and who explains how some tests are made to make you believe certain things especially in stores. and how to make a real blindtest.

Furthermore, if you read closely my posts, you'd notice that I very often claim that SD's pickups sound fairly good, well at least most of those I've personally tested (their line of products is quite immense) .
Am I not allowed to say that SD's most famous pickups are great BUT that Zephyrs are rip offs?

Have a nice day David.

[frankfalbo]

David, I don't see why you're defending someone who's hired to defend his company. SD has aan army of lawyers.

These are both lies. Knock it off. Hired to defend my company? Unbelievable. All those lab reports you want to see on silver wire? Show me your lab report that substantiates these claims. I want the same proof you're demanding for these inflammatory statements.

You know what? From here on out the burden of proof is on you. I want hard data proving that the Zephyr Silver pickups don't sound the way we heard them sound in our studies. I want scientific studies that substantiates your claim that the bimetallic studs "may sound different, but definitely not better" and all the other stuff you claim. Prove it. Prove that your assumptions of how we developed these is accurate.

[Dave Kerr]

How debunking the use of a few feet of high-priced speaker wire relates to the use of thousands of feet of magnet wire escapes me. You're slamming this product based upon ad copy and photos alone - you might consider waiting for some audio before going off on a diatribe.

[Mike Sulzer]

How debunking the use of a few feet of high-priced speaker wire relates to the use of thousands of feet of magnet wire escapes me. You're slamming this product based upon ad copy and photos alone - you might consider waiting for some audio before going off on a diatribe.

Who is slamming the product? As opposed to marketing claims?

SD's own description (Seymour Duncan New Products - SEYMOUR DUNCAN ZEPHYR™ SERIES ZEPHYR™ SILVER PICKUPS) makes the connection to high end audio cabling and other fake audiophile nonsense. So let's not demand that X justify the connection: SD made it themselves, and they are responsible for defending it, if they wish to do so.

Known as "The Great Conductor" among metals, silver and silver-plated wire's sonic excellence is well established in high fidelity audio applications, including moving coil phono cartridges, vacuum tube amplifier output transformers and cabling. Just as silver in audio makes music reproduction more convincing and alive, in pickup coils it gives your guitar punchier, jumpier, burstier feel with harmonically dense, dripping tone."

The articles X refers to discuss and properly debunk a couple of those fake claims.

If the pickup sounds good, great. It should sell to some of those with money and those guitarists will be happy with it. But anyone is free to slam the promotion; only the performance of the product might stop that.

[Steve Conner]

anyone is free to slam the promotion

OK, I'll bite! Since when was stainless steel a "premier transformer metal"?! I've seen audiophile transformers with pure nickel cores, but never stainless. At least the 440C alloy used is actually magnetic.

I'm working on a line of aftermarket pilot lamp jewels made from cryo-treated dill pickles as we speak.

There is a precedent for using silver magnet wire. During the Manhattan Project, American scientists needed 5,000 tons of copper to make the electromagnets for their uranium enrichment plant. But all of the copper was needed elsewhere in the war effort. 6,000 tons of silver bullion were borrowed from the U.S. Treasury, drawn into magnet wire (well, busbar, more like) by Phelps-Dodge, and returned after the war.

Manhattan Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It certainly "boosted the way huge potential" of modern warfare, as SD would put it.

[Joe Gwinn]

Don't Feed The Troll!

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

I think some hifi buff rode up and stole Xaar's girlfriend....

[frankfalbo]

I concede that to a bunch of pickup winders some of the marketing stuff can seem over the top. (but jeez, have you read some of YOUR websites lately? LOL! But that stuff wasn't written for you guys, it was written for players. And there are no lies in there. It effectively prepares the guitarist for what they'll experience. I might have written a few things differently but calling "nonsense" on the sonic claims is born of ignorance by definition, since no one has played them. But much more important than playing the final embodiment, NO ONE here has heard every iteration in isolation and compared to every other iteration except me. I've never lied to you before, why now? I don't mind the frenzy surrounding these pickups, but when it gets personal, and I feel like my integrity is called into question I get upset. Also when people try to put a "Darth Vader" mask on us because we're the biggest. We're people same as you. Not some giant corporation.

As I've said before, no one is demanding charts and graphs from a luthier proving that Brazillian Rosewood is more desirable than Indian. By the same token no one should imply that the existence of Brazilian Rosewood makes all Indian RW guitars "crap". Any good luthier can make a wonderful guitar with Indian. Some will argue that it's the "forbidden fruit" alone that influences the end user to glorify Brazilian, but that does not eradicate the differences. You can even say "I could change the bracing and thickness to tune this IRW to sound like BRW" and you might be right but it's still not the same.

For that matter you could say a parametric EQ on copper could get the "same" sound as silver. But it can not replicate the lightening fast rise time, or the early envelope dynamics. Unless you guys try these materials and techniques (or at least in the manner we have) you'll have to just trust me. But I thank those of you who have not questioned my integrity.

[Rick Turner]

Nothing quite like an anonymous troll with a nasty agenda...

[salvarsan]

Ignore the ignorant

As a moderator, you must read everything in your venue lest
obnoxious posters or vastly impertinent discussions threaten to
overwhelm on-topic matters. "Self-admittedly ignorant,
persistently insolent, and without credibility" are sufficient for
admission to the "obnoxious poster" category.

Once you log in to the Music Electronics Forum,
you have an abundance of forum settings available.

Speaking as an EX-moderator (or IMmoderator, as was evident),
I like the one labeled "Edit Ignore List".

[salvarsan]

<polite rebuttal redacted>

Yo, Frank.

Please don't waste time listening to barking dogs.

Yer man said the Zephyr Silver pickups should ship in a couple or three weeks.
I guess we'll see some online reviews in about a month, which is quick for a
new product release.

I look forward to it, and to the Zephyr's success.

-drh

[belwar]

As a maker of high end acoustic guitars that specifically caters to the corksniffeur crowd, im constantly amazed by what people are willing and WANTING to pay for. I cater to the "I want spruce harvested from the north slide of the mountain slope harvested by virgins only during a blue moon" crowd. I've built over a thousand guitars from Brazilian, and countless thousands of indian rosewood guitars. I tell people constantly that the indian rosewood is a better choice. It doesnt matter to them! No matter what I say, they want brazilian. So I market that to them, despite my belief that indian is better. I'm giving a customer what he wants, and making him happy - Everything else is secondary. These customers are not buying for sound - they are buying for the rareness, uniqueness, and collectability of the piece. A huge percentage of them can't tune a guitar on thier own, yet own a $9000 guitar. Even if the guitar doesnt sound the best, THEY think it sounds the best and THAT is what is important.

In my mind the zephyr's fall into this catagory - rare, unique, and collectable. Is there going to be a tonal change? Yes, No, maybe so? But it doesnt matter because a very happy customers is going to have them in his guitar and HE will think they sound best, and Duncan will have money in his pocket. Win-win! That's the point of business.

So what do I really think about them? Maybe a little over priced for me to buy them. Though I would really like to have a set, just to have them in my pickup collection. I have to say im a little more than jealous that I didnt do the silver wire first. I tried to get teflon coated silver wire when I started winding based on theory, butthe price was higher than the money I had so I didnt. My loss. I'm glad someone is doing it! Who knows, maybe the OEM price will be to the point that I can use them on something special.

[big_teee]

As a maker of high end acoustic guitars that specifically caters to the corksniffeur crowd, im constantly amazed by what people are willing and WANTING to pay for. I cater to the "I want spruce harvested from the north slide of the mountain slope harvested by virgins only during a blue moon" crowd. I've built over a thousand guitars from Brazilian, and countless thousands of indian rosewood guitars. I tell people constantly that the indian rosewood is a better choice. It doesnt matter to them! No matter what I say, they want brazilian. So I market that to them, despite my belief that indian is better. I'm giving a customer what he wants, and making him happy - Everything else is secondary. These customers are not buying for sound - they are buying for the rareness, uniqueness, and collectability of the piece. A huge percentage of them can't tune a guitar on thier own, yet own a $9000 guitar. Even if the guitar doesnt sound the best, THEY think it sounds the best and THAT is what is important.

In my mind the zephyr's fall into this catagory - rare, unique, and collectable. Is there going to be a tonal change? Yes, No, maybe so? But it doesnt matter because a very happy customers is going to have them in his guitar and HE will think they sound best, and Duncan will have money in his pocket. Win-win! That's the point of business.

So what do I really think about them? Maybe a little over priced for me to buy them. Though I would really like to have a set, just to have them in my pickup collection. I have to say im a little more than jealous that I didnt do the silver wire first. I tried to get teflon coated silver wire when I started winding based on theory, butthe price was higher than the money I had so I didnt. My loss. I'm glad someone is doing it! Who knows, maybe the OEM price will be to the point that I can use them on something special.

I agree Belwar:
It's strictly the old supply and demand thing.
I'm sure SD has a huge initial investment.
They are doing the pioneering on this, If they see there will be no need or customers for this product, it won't last long.
If it turns out to be revolutionary, they did it first, and everyone else will do the, "why didn't I do that".
Myself I'm glad its SD and not the other big Pickup maker doing it first.
Good Luck S.D.!