Pickup Parts quality

[John Carlsen]

Hey folks. Just wondering if there is a big difference in quality among pickup parts from company to company. I'm thinking mainly of stewmac vs mojotone for bobbins, magnets and wire. My sense is that mojo is better quality, but i just dont know. Ive been getting mags from addiction-fx on ebay. Would mojo be better quality still? Im not worried about cost here. Just trying to get the best quality and consistency possible.

[David Schwab]

The parts all seem of equal quality, and many come from the same factories. But they are sometimes a little different in their construction. So you pick the ones you like best.

Don't buy magnet wire from any of these firms. They sell small rolls and it's over priced.

Here's a good place to get magnet wire (on eBay):

Bae Wire

[Mike Sulzer]

Don't buy magnet wire from any of these firms. They sell small rolls and it's over priced.

Here's a good place to get magnet wire (on eBay):

Bae Wire

small rolls:It can also sometimes be badly re-spooled, resulting in tangling when it comes off.

[David Schwab]

small rolls:It can also sometimes be badly re-spooled, resulting in tangling when it comes off.

Good point. I had that happen several times when I first started winding and used wire from Stew-Mac.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

Ditto on the bad spooling, especially stew-mac. I wrote to them questioning the quality of the spooling, and they wrote back suggesting that I just wasn't winding correctly... I used other kinds of wire and haven't broken wire since then. Mojo is better about the spooling, but you can still tell that it isn't as clean as something like you'd get from BAE. If you use BAE stuff you won't want to switch. It is just too easy.

I prefer mojo for other materials, but that is just me. The machining is a bit cleaner, and it might be cheaper. Plus, if you buy the "kits" for strat or tele, they come pre-assembled - not a big deal most of the time, but it can be nice to have something lying around that you can slap together real quick.

[John Carlsen]

That's kinda what I figured. I didn't imagine that the actual elements like forbon would be different, but I did figure that the construction/machining would be a little better at Mojo. The first time I ordered wire, I ordered from BAE wire, so good to know that I should continue with them and stay away from stew mac or mojo for that stuff. I guess my biggest question was the quality and machining of the magnets. Would Mojo be better for that? I know that they also sell pre-assembled strat bobbins, which is appealing to me as it would save time. Basically, if i could order everything from one place, other than the magnet wire, then I would love that, as long as the quality would be good.

[Rick Turner]

Well, you get to a certain point of buying everything from an outside supplier, and you might as well just buy pickups from Seymour and re-sell them.

Where's the creativity here? Come on now....

Has pickup making really descended to the level of painting-by-numbers kits?

Sure looks like it...

[John Carlsen]

well I would love to have time and money to invest in my own fabrication and such, but I just don't have it. I work a full-time job, so I don't really have the means to do anything but buy parts from somewhere like mojo or stewmac. If you have other suggestions, please tell me because I'm always up for learning something new as I'm just getting my stuff off the ground with pickup winding. It seemed like an accomplishment just to build a machine that spun and counted my pickup winds, much less getting wire on them in an orderly fashion! I'd love some advice if you have it to give, Rick. Anything I can learn from you guys is gold in my book.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

Everyone creates on their own levels - if you're having fun with it, go for it! If you were selling a product as your own signature model and it was just a kit, then I'd be rolling my eyes. And frankly I suspect many of the pickups out there (like the eBay stores) are really just assembled kits. Stew-mac even seems to imply that it is for resale purposes. But, for hobby level stuff I see nothing dogmatically wrong with using kits. Plus, if you're just learning winding, what better way than to keep all other elements consistent, like using a kit. I've been going the route of starting from scratch for original pickup designs, using raw materials, only occasionally borrowing from existing designs, and it is hugely time consuming and expensive. It has meant a huge personal and financial commitment and if I wasn't as gung-ho on it I'd probably be sticking to the kits too. You don't need to be a world class pickup builder to have fun with it, or use it as a tool to enhance your own abilities in repairs, design, etc.

I have the same issues/ideas with people who buy Warmoth parts, put them together, then put their own names on the head, and call themselves a luthier. But, parts instruments are amazing for hobbyists, first time builders wanting to learn something, or professionals who want to slap something together quickly that is different from what they can get walking into a music store. For the money you can get a great guitar by assembling it yourself, and the same is true of pickups. You get to have fun making something, and get something made to the specs you want instead of being at the mercy of what the big companies make.

If I were to stick to one company over the other to consolidate shipping costs, I'd pick Mojo. If you want raw forbon, Stew-Mac is pretty darn pricy. I forget what Mojo charges. I don't use forbon (my own designs prohibit it) but I don't think anyone who buys bulk here deals with either of these companies. Mojo seems consistently reasonable with prices. If they are expensive on something, it probably is just because of how they are buying it and simply can't sell it cheap. Look at their Sprague capacitor prices, for example. They cost more than Mouser, but not by much. Some guitar companies out there will try to sell them for $12 a piece which is highway robbery. They'll take advantage of the fact that when a guitar player buys a cap for his guitar it is probably the one and only time he'll ever buy a capacitor and won't know the difference in pricing. Mojo avoids that temptation.

Regarding the magnets I haven't noticed much of a difference in the raw quality, but research potential sound differences. If you search back on the threads, I think some people figured out where the different magnets are being sourced and you'll probably be more likely to make your choice based on sound rather than anything else. My memory could be off, but I seem to remember a big debate on this. It also could have been only about the bar magnets and not apply to the poles.

[big_teee]

Everyone creates on their own levels - if you're having fun with it, go for it! If you were selling a product as your own signature model and it was just a kit, then I'd be rolling my eyes. And frankly I suspect many of the pickups out there (like the eBay stores) are really just assembled kits. Stew-mac even seems to imply that it is for resale purposes. But, for hobby level stuff I see nothing dogmatically wrong with using kits. Plus, if you're just learning winding, what better way than to keep all other elements consistent, like using a kit. I've been going the route of starting from scratch for original pickup designs, using raw materials, only occasionally borrowing from existing designs, and it is hugely time consuming and expensive. It has meant a huge personal and financial commitment and if I wasn't as gung-ho on it I'd probably be sticking to the kits too. You don't need to be a world class pickup builder to have fun with it, or use it as a tool to enhance your own abilities in repairs, design, etc.

I have the same issues/ideas with people who buy Warmoth parts, put them together, then put their own names on the head, and call themselves a luthier. But, parts instruments are amazing for hobbyists, first time builders wanting to learn something, or professionals who want to slap something together quickly that is different from what they can get walking into a music store. For the money you can get a great guitar by assembling it yourself, and the same is true of pickups. You get to have fun making something, and get something made to the specs you want instead of being at the mercy of what the big companies make.

If I were to stick to one company over the other to consolidate shipping costs, I'd pick Mojo. If you want raw forbon, Stew-Mac is pretty darn pricy. I forget what Mojo charges. I don't use forbon (my own designs prohibit it) but I don't think anyone who buys bulk here deals with either of these companies. Mojo seems consistently reasonable with prices. If they are expensive on something, it probably is just because of how they are buying it and simply can't sell it cheap. Look at their Sprague capacitor prices, for example. They cost more than Mouser, but not by much. Some guitar companies out there will try to sell them for $12 a piece which is highway robbery. They'll take advantage of the fact that when a guitar player buys a cap for his guitar it is probably the one and only time he'll ever buy a capacitor and won't know the difference in pricing. Mojo avoids that temptation.

Regarding the magnets I haven't noticed much of a difference in the raw quality, but research potential sound differences. If you search back on the threads, I think some people figured out where the different magnets are being sourced and you'll probably be more likely to make your choice based on sound rather than anything else. My memory could be off, but I seem to remember a big debate on this. It also could have been only about the bar magnets and not apply to the poles.

I agree 100%.
We don't all have custom guitar shops.
It's great if you do.
With all the parts available today, you can still do custom winding.
After all the sound and tone comes from what each individual does with the parts.
How you wind the bobbins, amount of TPL, type of magnets, strength of magnets used, etc.
I'm not going to fabricate a baseplate, make my own humbucker bobbins, when all of this work and engineering has already been done for me.
Same with Single coils, With the great lazer flatwork you can buy from Mojo, why would I fabricate my own just to make a few pickups.
Now if I am in the assembly line manufacturing of the pickups, I would want to make the parts to save money.
If your not designing a new guitar, and your'e just repairing or replacing existing pickups.
Your confined to the parts that are already designed for that guitar.
Also you have the price point.
Well Known Custom guitar builders, can charge that extra price for all the custom one of a kind parts. Joe Blow local bedroom guitarist will not pay that.
He may want a better somewhat custom pickup, but not at a real custom price point.
So I say there is a need for all price ranges of custom pickups, at all price points.
Like I've mentioned before there doesn't always have to be just one right or wrong answer.
PS: A good discussion.
Later,
Terry

[StarryNight]

Well, you get to a certain point of buying everything from an outside supplier, and you might as well just buy pickups from Seymour and re-sell them.

Where's the creativity here? Come on now....

Has pickup making really descended to the level of painting-by-numbers kits?

Sure looks like it...

I can understand this sentiment. Industry is at a phase now where we are over-producing and don't need to create any new products. As a result assembly is becoming the new business model. You see it in most all products. I can work with a wine supplier in Italy to send me his juice, bottle it and put my own label on it. The fish industry does this. If the package says Made in Canada that means it's just packaged in Canada - they get the fish from other parts of the world. Guitars, power tools, furniture (I can't believe how much cheap-ass furniture is out there!), recycled music (sampling), clothing. Ironically, we all take part in it. I don't think there's a way around it. I did see a guy once showcase his basses and I noticed he milled his own bridges out of brass - I was so impressed! Compared to CNC production it looked primitive. The sad part about that is we now expect precision beyond the capability of most humans (I blame the drum machine personally). There is a niche market for hand made stuff but I think its getting smaller. Maybe there's a renaissance on the horizon - we can only hope.

[RedHouse]

Well, you get to a certain point of buying everything from an outside supplier, and you might as well just buy pickups from Seymour and re-sell them.

Where's the creativity here? Come on now....

Has pickup making really descended to the level of painting-by-numbers kits?

Sure looks like it...

C'mon yourself Rick, not everyone can afford a $5-10k CNC Laser cutter to cut their forbon and be creative.

People (buying those type pickups) want forbon, in the past I have made Strat/Tele pickups out of other materials but buyers want them in Forbon. I make my rick pickup bobbins in-house from FR4, I do use pre-cut forbon from the suppliers mentioned (and HB bobbins too).

It's way more economic to buy certain things pre-fab'd, even Gibson (and others) buy their bobbins pre-fab'd.

[John Carlsen]

I'm with ya there. I don't really think that you can equate buying pre cut forbon flatwork to just assembling a guitar from warmoth parts with a prefinished neck and body. There's absolutely nothing wrong with buying pre cut forbon and using it to create "your" pickups, even if you are selling them. There comes a point when you have to realize that the winding itself is the art, not pushing the flatwork over the maget rods. That would be like saying that Music Man using pickups and tuners from different companies discredits them from being able to claim that the guitar really is custom or their exclusive model. If we are going to go that far, then we should be making our own magnet wire or hookup wire too! I would guess that people usually buy these from companies pre made, pre spooled and packaged neatly...

[peskywinnets]

. There comes a point when you have to realize that the winding itself is the art,

At the risk on getting flamed on such a forum - is it really art? There are two methods of winding - CNC (reproducable) & handwound (not reproducable), as unfashionable as it to say on such a forum, I find it hard to believe that handwound can beat machine wound for consistent results.

I read a thread on here the other day...someone had wound his first pickup - to his ears it was better than his stock Gibson wound pickup. Now call me a cynic, but Gibson are in the market to sell guitars...and selling a guitars means it has to sound good (ok a lot of it is branding/marketing too), so let's recap....

A bloke who cobbled some stock parts together to wind his first pickup vs a gargantuan guitar manafacturer who's been in the business donkeys years - really, whose pickup is going to likely sound the best?

Are we saying that buying some stock pickup kit from Stewmac & winding a pickup by hand trumps CNC wound everytime?!

I've just bought an ML1 guitar (an internet collobratively designed guitar ...watch the video story here YouTube - Chapman Guitars The Movie (The ML1 Story) ] ), the seller goes out his way to say he's fitted the cheapest chinese pickups he could find (he put the majority of the manafacturing expenditure into a quality wood & hardware) - the expectation is that the buyer will swap them out for his own pickups of choice. Do you know what - They sound very good to my ears (I own other very high quality guitars), have a listen YouTube - Chapman Guitars ML1 overview and demo

[John Carlsen]

I agree that if consistency is the goal, then yes, machines are the best way to go, but that is not really the point of the thread. Depending on what pickup you are making, I think that handwound DO sound better. The difference is, the winder needs to know what they are doing. I tried to be smart about how I did my first pickups and did more research than I'd like to admit before I even built my winder. Do I think that you could wind a really good sounding strat pickup with the stew mac kits? Yes, I do. Would it be better than the fender custom shop stuff? I don't know, but I suppose it's possible. The two broad categories are machine or hand wound, but with the variations possible in handwinding, i don't think that it could ever be considered an either/or situation. I'm not really understanding what you're after. are you talking about consistency or quality of sound? I've never wound a humbucker before, only strat and tele coils, so I can't speak to the guy that wound a humbucker and said it was better than his stock one. I will say though, that I like my strat pickups much better than anything that Fender puts out. The difference in sound may be on the smaller sound, but the feel is different as well, and it's those subtle little differences that drive us guitar players nuts and make us throw all of our money into different guitars and amps.