prototype testing of hum canceling P-90 design

[WolfeMacleod]

Made our first prototype earlier this week. Tested today at THD amps.



I'd say the beta testing went pretty well overall. the overall output was a little less than Andy and I though it would be, so I'm going to a couple more and wind a bit hotter, bumping up the mids as well. . This pickup here is 10k. A bit brighter than Andy and I expected it to be as well, but very nice tone and touch response overall
Dead. Freaking. Silent. "Quieter than an EMG" as Andy put it.

Before plugging in, Andy expressed concerns that the inductance might be...wonky...because of my core mass, but apparently that wasn't the case If it were, it shoulda sounded like crapola. Or maybe it was and it just worked. I don't bother with it. I'd rather use my EARS.

Anyways, here's the video I shot with Andy testing. A couple bleeps there so as not to give away any secrets.

Not bad for a quick prototype with a vague "this might work" idea.

[Sweetfinger]

Sidewinder design? The sidewinder style hum cancelling P-90s I've heard have been surprisingly clean sounding for the DCR and mass of the cores. I like toward the end of the video where you're trying to see how much volume/gain it takes to make the pickup squeal- it starts to sound like Gordie Johnson! Interested to hear the next version.

[big_teee]

Sidewinder design? The sidewinder style hum cancelling P-90s I've heard have been surprisingly clean sounding for the DCR and mass of the cores. I like toward the end of the video where you're trying to see how much volume/gain it takes to make the pickup squeal- it starts to sound like Gordie Johnson! Interested to hear the next version.

On a sidewinder design.
I understand the 2 coils turned sideways, and the pole screws in the middle.
Not sure where the magnets are, I presume in the coils?
Not sure what polarity the pole screws would be?
I've found very little on sidewinder pickups.
Thanks,

[Sweetfinger]

The Fralin hum canceling P-90, Lace hum canceling P-90, Gibson EBO neck pickup, Fernandes Sustainer driver/pickup, and Gibson Ripper bass pickups are all sidewinder designs. There are more, but those are ones I can think of off the top of my head. I think some Lawrence designs might be sidewinders too. Some have the magnets inside the coil bobbins- parallel to the strings, some have them on the outside of the bobbins coupled to a ferrous bobbin core, some have the magnet somewhere in the center core.

[WolfeMacleod]

Sidewinder design? The sidewinder style hum cancelling P-90s I've heard have been surprisingly clean sounding for the DCR and mass of the cores. I like toward the end of the video where you're trying to see how much volume/gain it takes to make the pickup squeal- it starts to sound like Gordie Johnson! Interested to hear the next version.

Nope...

I was very surprised that that's all the squealing he could coax out of it,. I mean.. they room was EFFING LOUD already, especially when he cranked the gain. Sitting like two feet from the cabinet....

[Sweetfinger]

Nope...

Well, ... that narrows it down! You can stack 'em or lay 'em down side by side. The devil is in the details.

[JGundry]

I think I know what Wolfe did. I have had the same idea but have not tried it yet. My guess it if you looked at this pickup with the cover off you would initially think it was just a P-90 with a very full bobbin.

[rdrr]

On a sidewinder design.
I understand the 2 coils turned sideways, and the pole screws in the middle.
Not sure where the magnets are, I presume in the coils?
Not sure what polarity the pole screws would be?
I've found very little on sidewinder pickups.
Thanks,

There are a couple of ways to make these, one with the magnet as the pole piece and the other with the magnets in the coil. I'm currently making some prototypes of the latter. I wind 2 coils the same way and then attach them to the pole piece. You face the similar polarity toward each other when assembling, the pole piece then takes on that polarity. You then wire the end of one coil to the start of the other for series wiring , or the starts and ends together for parallel. David Schwab will probably be along at some point to correct me on this if I have this wrong, I know he makes a number of sidewinder pickups.


There are a couple of thread here about these , I think you can find them if you search for mudbucker , gibson grabber , or thunderbird. There is also a thread where someone pulled apart a couple of Lane Poor pickups where I think one of them was a sidewinder.

Rob

[jason lollar]

heres something I did for jackie greene a few years ago- its a mini in a dog ear cover- and I didnt try to hide it too much so I still screwed the pickup to the cover. I would never call this a humcancelling P-90 though.
To me when anyone says they have a humcancelling P-90 it should sound extremely similar to a typical P-90. Or one could say they have a humcancelling pickup that fits in a P-90 case.
Wolfe how are you going to run the height adjustment screws with a soapbar cover?

[Joe Gwinn]

Well, ... that narrows it down! You can stack 'em or lay 'em down side by side. The devil is in the details.

Or you can make the windings coaxial. If there is enough space between inner and outer windings, the music won't completely cancel, but hum cancellation can be very good.

[jason lollar]

wolfe called me the other day and said he tried that coaxial winding- hopefully he tells us about it.
Post war gibson made EH 150 pickups used a split blade with one coil wound around it and a channel horshoe magnet underneath so one side of the split blade is north and the other side south- I think its the same version they used in the john lennon madison square garden guitar. Anyway if you bend the strings towards the middle of the pickup it starts to sound out of phase but otherwise as I recall they sound like a typical pickup.
one of those things that you would think wouldnt work

[JGundry]

Or you can make the windings coaxial. If there is enough space between inner and outer windings, the music won't completely cancel, but hum cancellation can be very good.

This is the route I suspected Wolfe was taking. I never tried it but I figured you might be able to juggle the windings and wire gauge to come up with something that works well.

[soundmasterg]

I was wondering about winding stuff this way (coaxial) a couple years back but people who wind pickups that I know told me it would sound like shit so I never pursued it. If Wolfe did something with this method and it sounds good, then kudos!

Greg

[Sweetfinger]

wolfe called me the other day and said he tried that coaxial winding- hopefully he tells us about it.
Post war gibson made EH 150 pickups used a split blade with one coil wound around it and a channel horshoe magnet underneath so one side of the split blade is north and the other side south- I think its the same version they used in the john lennon madison square garden guitar. Anyway if you bend the strings towards the middle of the pickup it starts to sound out of phase but otherwise as I recall they sound like a typical pickup.
one of those things that you would think wouldnt work

There are two polarities but that pickup wouldn't be hum cancelling - there's still just one coil. I could see doing a coaxial hum cancelling P-90 but again, you'd have to have good separation between inner and outer winds. Maybe Wolfe has devised some sort of "deflector" like the Kinman (and Dimarzios that seem to have borrowed from the Kinmans) and instead of stacking the coils, has wound the second coil on the outside of the focusing plates.

[peskywinnets]

What does 'coaxial' mean wrt winding a pickup?