SRV PE WIRE.

[Ward]

Well you wouldn't believe it, I never get lucky but today I did. I just bought two of these
42 AWG N.O.S. guitar pickup wire from famous amp shop | eBay
I've come to the conclusion that 42 HFV is not to my liking for hand winding strat singles ( may be great with auto traverse?) but I find it a bit woolly, I'll be very interested to hear this stuff. It won't go far but I'm rapt to have jagged these. Anyone else stumble onto them.

[Lpone]

Well you wouldn't believe it, I never get lucky but today I did. I just bought two of these
42 AWG N.O.S. guitar pickup wire from famous amp shop | eBay
I've come to the conclusion that 42 HFV is not to my liking for hand winding strat singles ( may be great with auto traverse?) but I find it a bit woolly, I'll be very interested to hear this stuff. It won't go far but I'm rapt to have jagged these. Anyone else stumble onto them.

The seller is Peter McMahon and he is associated historically with Cesar Diaz amp maker who in turn is associated with SRV. Peter is saying HE WATCHED SRV'S NO1 PICKUPS BEING REWOUND WITH THIS BATCH OF WIRE!!! think about that....

reference:
http://www.stompthatbox.com/peter_mcmahon.html
http://www.diazmusicalproducts.com/history.htm

I have bought several rolls and I am convinced the mystery of SRV No1 pickups is solved. I note the relatively sparse info about the pickups after the hotel room SRV No1 autopsy by Fender. No pics or details other than they were original unmodified pickups. If they were covered with copper shielding as I have read somewhere when researching this then how would the fact that they were unmodified be established? Do you think Jimmy Vaughan who was there would have let them take one apart? I personally think not.

reference: http://music-electronics-forum.com/t16912/

I would say that almost certainly Cesar would have wound SRV's pickups in low ohm range at least for the neck and middle as Cesar is on record to have said that was his preference (reference as I recall Tonequest report).

reference:
http://www.tonequest.com/ray.htm

Mystery solved as far as I am concerned. Now many winders may not accept this as they would have egg on their face eg they sell slightly overwound Formvar as the SRV tone. However PE has a glassier tone than Formvar, SRV's tone is glassy and this ebay ad would be perfect explanation. If true as I believe this wire is precious and historically significant.

To top off this great buy Peter said he would send me the original schematics for SRVs No1 by Cesar so I look forward to that!

Don

[copperheadroads]

Its definitely some great info ......Thanks
But is there a date when Cesar rewound the pickups ..........Maybe near the end ? after all the albums & video's
I think the Heavy Formvar wire really nails his tone ,& wound to '59 specs or a little hotter

[Lpone]

Thanks Copperheadroads. I cannot say, forgot to ask Peter in my emails, but that is a good point, the date on the wire is 12/88 so got to be after that.

[Lpone]

And that means ... SRV's No1 pickups could have been wound with heavy Formvar (or PE if rewound more than once) for the vast majority of his career as 1989 was the the last year before he died. Guess its back to the drawing board!

[Bill M]

I met Caesar in the early 90's, when I was working at East Stroudsburg University.He lived just a few blocks from there. He was a very nice guy, but sometimes would change his stories. He told me that SRV's bridge pickup died and that they just replaced it with a period correct black bottom. I believe there is, also, an article somewhere with him stating this. I guess the only way to know for sure would be to see the coils of his pickups, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon.

The ebay auction for the wire also mentions that Caesar was doing rewinds for Duncan. I cann't confirm this, but maybe Frank Falbo will chime in on this one.

[big_teee]

I've done some additional reading today on the subject also.
My conclusion was SRV was Already Rich and Famous before they rewound the #1 Pickups.
If Rewound in 1988, the plane went down in 90, so He may have had a set he liked a bit better for a year or two!
He had already run the gamut by then!
Makes a Hellofa Story though.
Terry

[David Schwab]

However PE has a glassier tone than Formvar, SRV's tone is glassy and this ebay ad would be perfect explanation.

I don't know about that. Heavy build wire is bright sounding. I don't use PE but most people say it has a softer tone.

SRVs tone came from his hands anyway.

[Lpone]

I don't know about that. Heavy build wire is bright sounding. I don't use PE but most people say it has a softer tone.

SRVs tone came from his hands anyway.

Hi David I agree with that in principle, though I was basing my statement on my perception that the mid 60s -70s strat pickups wound with PE sound glassier than the earlier Formvar wound ones, maybe because they were wound to lower DC resistance then? I have not compared heavy and single build in humbuckers but I agree that PE would be darker than say poly. So the heavy build does something to capacitance but I would think one would also need to take into account the particular sonic characteristics of Formvar and PE as wire coatings and I know that is covered ad nauseum in other threads.

But yeah much of tone is in the fingers and of course downtuned and overly large strings!

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

I always thought he sounded better when he grabbed a different strat. In the Austin City Limits from his In Step tour, he had a blondish Strat that sounded amazing. "Lenny" was an amazing sounding guitar too, but he only used that on the soft ballads as far as I know. I don't have any particular answers, but a couple things I recall:

1) Cesar once told Stevie about how Hendrix's pickups would have been underwound in comparison to his own 50s/60s pickups, and Stevie immediately wanted windings taken off. When this happened and on which guitar I have no idea, nor do I know if he stuck to this philosophy over the years. People often forget that Stevie had quite a hero-worship for Hendrix in his younger days.

2) The Fender Texas Specials use PE. They aren't modeled after the #1 pickups, but they were (as I recall) designed specifically for the SRV Signature, which also wasn't based on any particular guitar of Stevie's, but was based on his specifications. It is probably in the same manner that the Clapton, Cray, etc. strats were only marginally based on their other guitars but mostly updated versions created for that artist - think the lace sensors and mid-boost in the Clapton strat. The SRV has a hard poly finish, which supposedly was by Stevie's request. He said he wanted players to have a rougher and tougher guitar than the ones he had to put up with (don't tell this to anyone who relics... they just might crap themselves). Had Stevie lived long enough, he probably would have been playing his signature almost exclusively with the Texas Specials. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that either Cesar or Stevie (or both) liked PE enough to request it for his signature model. I'm not sure what the availability of that wire was like in the late 80s, but I doubt that they would have used PE just because it was what was sitting on the shelf.

HF always sounded more loose to me - like a near-blown alnico speaker. PE is close to SPN, but the highs are cleaner to my ears. I'm not quite sure how to articulate it. Maybe it is darker, but it doesn't sound it to me. It just sounds less raspy. I can certainly see how this would be a negligible difference with some form factors, but it has been a critical difference for me in some designs.

[David Schwab]

The SRV has a hard poly finish, which supposedly was by Stevie's request.

So much for the myth that a hard poly finish ruins the tone of the guitar! Steve would know tone.

He said he wanted players to have a rougher and tougher guitar than the ones he had to put up with (don't tell this to anyone who relics... they just might crap themselves).

Most of the distressed guitars are already crap, so that saves them the trouble of producing more.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

So much for the myth that a hard poly finish ruins the tone of the guitar! Steve would know tone.


Most of the distressed guitars are already crap, so that saves them the trouble of producing more.

I don't think it refutes the finish type's impact on tone - it simply shows that Stevie put a higher priority on his gear being rugged. It is worth nothing that his #1 wasn't beat up because he thought it looked cool... He just played it a lot. He wanted a useable tool, not a relic. I knew a guy who liked his SRV signature strat a lot until he realized it was poly... when he realized that it wouldn't fade, check and wear down to wood easily he just lost interest in the instrument.

It is possible that the Fender folks worked hard to talk him into poly, too. It would have been new at Fender and they may not have wanted to spray lacquer if they didn't absolutely have to. Plus, just getting into the new fangled finish, they probably had amazing things to say about it. He may have changed his mind had he not died, but who knows. It is pointless to argue; but it is worth noting when and under what circumstances that decision was made.

[jmaf]

SRV could play any dang wire dangling from any kind of lacquer or bourbon and it would sound like SRV. Period.

[David Schwab]

I don't think it refutes the finish type's impact on tone

Except it has no impact on tone. Unless it's red. Then it's louder.

He might not have liked the finish worn off his guitar, who knows?

[voodoochild]

I honestly feel like Stevie's tone was mostly the wall of amps he played through. Many don't know that he got his sound mainly from several amps at lower volumes which gave him a huge clean tone. I think any old low output strat pickup would have still given him that tone regardless if it were PE or Formvar. Not saying those don't play a rolebut I think a very small role in his sound. Obviously his playing style and the way the guitar was set up made for most of it.