PE vs Poly wire isolation experiment with sound samples included

[MrCandy]

PEvsPoly

Music by Sergey Gunikov Albom "Songs of the world" 2011 compositions "Ireland" and "America"
All compositions were made with 8 string guitar.
Guitar pickup were provided by our company.

Preamble:
Until now there are discussions about the difference in sound quality of guitar pickups
made with Poly isolation copper wire and PE. We have previously carried out many
[experiments] and now we decided to pay attention to this discussion. We have conducted
studies and made their findings, you can find them in video and screens attached.

Wire samples:
For the purity of the experiment as a sample of 42AWG PE wire a coil ½ lb from Mojotone
was taken. As a sample of Poly 42 AWG we used our wire.

10foot DCR:
Poly
OD - 0.071mm
10foot /Rdc(t-30 C ͦ) - 17.50 Om
(t-20 C ͦ) ~ 16.81 Om

PE
OD - 0.065mm
10foot /Rdc(t-30 C ͦ) - 18.35 Om
(t-20 C ͦ) ~ 17.63 Om

Also we want to admit that coils with PE sample we have looks pretty much defferent for occupancy in the reel


Electrical measurements:


Tab №1, measurements of air cails before waxing were used for this tab.


Spectrograms



To be continued in post 2...

[MrCandy]

What coil is used for what:
For sound samples the following coils were used:
Poly
Coil №3 Poly LS- 83 5000NT(screws)
Coil №5 Poly LS- 83 4900NT(slugs)
PE
Coil №4 PE LS- 83 5000NT(screws)
Coil №6 PE LS-83 4900NT(slugs)

As for coils with 30LS, they were used as test coils to identify the influence
of wire layout in a row on the frequency characteristics.

Spectrograms and Echar of pickups made

PE


Poly


Materials:



To be continued post 3...

[MrCandy]

Some information about sound samples:
All the sound tests were conducted at a time in the same day
using same materials(BP, magnet(A2), slugs, screws…)
We got 3 sound tests total.
One using Poly, one using PE, and third one is our model of pickup using Poly 5000/4900NT screws/slugs.

Recording equipment:
TSL 60 AMP 1960 lead Cab
AT 4040 microphone

SAMPLES FOR THE POLL

№1 1 MP3.mp3
№2 2 MP3.mp3
№3 3 MP3.mp3

To make it easy to compare here are short cuts of samples recorded in the same sequence like in the POLL

arpeggio MP3.mp3
attack MP3.mp3
funk MP3.mp3
note picking MP3.mp3


Findings:
PE behaved predictably. As a wire with thinner copper D it showed smaller Q factor
And lower RP. In fact, everyone should find the conclusions which he is interested in
by watching the video and materials attached.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

Nifty comparison, though the spectrograms have me scratching my head... I'm seeing more differences than I ever would've expected there to be between the two wires.

Any thoughts on why the build seemed to come out different on the bobbins? With my own mickey-moused setup, I often notice that my tensioning needs to be different for different insulations (different smoothness of each wire), and the bobbin shapes and quality of the original spooling can be weird, too. Perhaps the Mojo came off a bit harder and ended up tighter?

I took the liberty of converting the ODs for us imperial measurement folk (rounded as I saw fit):

Poly: 0.00280
PE: 0.00256

It probably is just the speed of the video, but it looks like you're crunching the wire a bit with your micrometer. Do you crank it enough for the clutch to click, or do you stop short of that?

[MrCandy]

It probably is just the speed of the video, but it looks like you're crunching the wire a bit with your micrometer. Do you crank it enough for the clutch to click, or do you stop short of that?

We measured it 10 times before this video come out and it was more like AWG 42.5 But we measured "Mojotone AWG 42 1/2 lb coil".
Our micrometer is fine. Speed of the video is x2-x3.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

We measured it 10 times before this video come out and it was more like AWG 42.5 But we measured "Mojotone AWG 42 1/2 lb coil".
Our micrometer is fine. Speed of the video is x2-x3.

It sounds about right - the mojo wire isn't exactly consistently on spec, but I was just curious.

[LtKojak]

Is it fine to post your vote or better not, so it doesn't influence the others?

BTW I LOVE blind tests.

Thank you Andry for take the time and the effort to do this.

When are you going to offer nickelsilver baseplates and covers?

Yours truly,

[big_teee]

Is it fine to post your vote or better not, so it doesn't influence the others?

Go ahead and influence Us!
Terry

[copperheadroads]

They all are very close ,& one of the clips i thought it might be #2
but I'm thinking it's 1

[jason lollar]

how about doing it all over again with the same size wire and insulation build? 65 and 71 is a pretty big size difference and we dont know what the insulation build is on either wire.

[LtKojak]

Go ahead and influence Us!
Terry

Ok, here I go:

PE: n. 1
Poly: n. 2
Uneven wound coils: n. 3

Well? How did I do?

[big_teee]

Ok, here I go:

PE: n. 1
Poly: n. 2
Uneven wound coils: n. 3

Well? How did I do?

If you look at the charts, the PE is Lower Freq.
So IMO #2 might be the PE!
Like JL said with wire being different size and diff. DCR per foot, they can't sound the same.
B_T

[copperheadroads]

I doubt if any of the winders around here use the Mojo Plain Enamel .Way to pricey

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

If you look at the charts, the PE is Lower Freq.
So IMO #2 might be the PE!
Like JL said with wire being different size and diff. DCR per foot, they can't sound the same.
B_T

I'll second (third?) that. The differences are definitely there in the samples; it is just a matter of whether or not we can tell which is which. I'll save saying what I heard until more folks have had a chance to weigh in, though.

[David Schwab]

I took the liberty of converting the ODs for us imperial measurement folk (rounded as I saw fit):

Poly: 0.00280
PE: 0.00256

That difference in thickness, which I'm assuming is the insulation, will automatically change the way each sounds.

You can see in the photos that the PE coil is smaller. I think we need wire more closely matched to do an accurate test.