new gibson ccontrol cavity circuit board CRAP

[LtKojak]

Thanks for the photo Dave, it looks like the cheap Alphas, probably a darker sounding pot.

I've used'em in the past (there aren't very popular in Italy, due to the crappy commercial conditions of the importer). and they're excellent. All 500K measured up from 495K to 517K and the taper is just as good as the best CTS', so don't discard'em just yet, Dave.

HTH,

[copperheadroads]

After reading this post I was curious ,so I just checked 20 of the cts pots I got mojo & they all read between 493 & 518 with the exception of 2 that read around 524 & one that read 487

[David Schwab]

Thanks for the photo Dave, it looks like the cheap Alphas, probably a darker sounding pot. I think I'll try some CTS from AllParts, supposedly they have a solid carbon track that you can trim to dial in what value you want, Mojo's don't.

Has anyone tried the PEC pots, $35 each I think they are, I got a pair but supposedly the backs are stainless so you can't solder to them, they are said to have the smoothest taper of all, military grade, fat carbon tracks....

It's not going to sound dark or bright. Pots don't have a sound. If you want 500k and the pot reads lower, it might sound slightly darker. If it reads higher it might be slightly brighter.

That particular pot in the photo was a 250k, and reads 270k. Personally I doubt 20k difference would be heard. But you can test it yourself by getting some precision fixed resistors and wiring them across the output of the pickup replacing the pot. See if you can hear the difference between a 500k resistor and a 480k or 520k resistor. If the tone of your pickups is hinging of a pot being exactly a certain value you have a problem! Who knows what guitar it's going to be installed in, or what cable they are going to use.

If you want better pots, go with some of the square sealed pots.

[Sweetfinger]

Here's what I see. I see a standard Strat switch with three terminals, one for each pickup. In fact, it's simpler than the usual switch because it has only one deck. So it would be a standard 5 way switch, there the 2 and 4 positions short two of the terminals together. So your diagram is much more elaborate, it this doesn't look like that.


[ATTACH=CONFIG]15795[/ATTACH]

I'm sure it works like this:

Wiring Diagram

I'm not why you need to know how the switch switches anyway, since if you are using their solderless system, it's all plug-and-play. There's not a whole lot of ways to wire EMGs since they can't do series or coil splits.

You seem to be very sure about something that you have no direct knowledge of(this switch), so I'm going to say this very simply-

THE SWITCH DOES NOT OPERATE THAT WAY! WHAT YOU "SEE" IS NOT WHAT YOU GET!!!! I WAS NOT DOING A "STOCK" CIRCUIT! EMG THEMSELVES DID NOT HAVE A DIAGRAM OR EXPLANATION OF THE SWITCH BEYOND BASIC LAYOUTS FOR STOCK WIRING SCHEMES.

My whole beef with that "plug and play" solderless connection system is that it only works "as advertised" in a few guitars with a small number of "stock" wiring options. One thing I wanted to do was to switch the neck pickup on in the bridge and middle positions with its own blend. This is a very common mod that I and countless other techs do every day, and is easy to configure a standard 5 way to do. I was sure that the original designer of the switch had anticipated this, which is why it has a terminal area labeled "bypass" and several connections that *appear* to be parallel or duplicate connections. I gave up trying to make the EMG switch work. It is not intuitively labeled and I couldn't figure out what the hell they were thinking from checking continuity between the connections. Sure, I could have spent three hours and checked the continuity between every single connection, but time is money and If I reach the point in a job where finishing sooner requires ditching the shiny new EMG switch, I don't hesitate too much longer.
Please, unless you have concrete and useful information regarding the operation of the EMG switch other than stock layout diagrams, I have no use for further discussion of the switch.

FYI: EMG has several models that have coil split or alternate voicing capability.

I don't know about serviceability. If a pot goes bad, you order a new circuit board assembly. You unplug the connections, swap the boards, tighten the nuts, plug everything back in. That's about as easy as re-soldering a pot.

Modding the guitar is a different story. But I don't see parts going bad. I have 40 year old guitars with the original pots.

Please, until you've actually had to remove one of those circuit boards from a Les Paul, do NOT use the term "easy". It is NOT as "easy as re-soldering a pot". You said yourself that you don't know anything about the serviceability of these, so stop telling ME how "easy" it is. I do authorized Gibson warranty. Pots and electronics DO go bad in spite of your 40 year old guitar with no problems.

[copperheadroads]

I've used'em in the past (there aren't very popular in Italy, due to the crappy commercial conditions of the importer). and they're excellent. All 500K measured up from 495K to 517K and the taper is just as good as the best CTS', so don't discard'em just yet, Dave.

HTH,

I know the larger Alpha pots are not that bad
The small alpha pots on the other hand have a very poor taper

[Possum]

Pots do have a sound. The thin carbon silkscreened on Alpha and looks like on Bourns too aren't as transparent sounding as CTS which have a thicker track that isn't printed on plastic. I had only been using Alpha pots for the last 7 years and when I switched to CTS pots I was shocked at the tonal difference, the pickups sounded brighter and more full of harmonics, for the same value of pots. RS pots don't sound like Mojo pots, their have an edgy top end I found really annoying, the Mojos don't have that problem. If you have a really bright bridge pickup using Alpha pots is a good idea. About five months ago I totally rewired two Epiphone Elitists and went through CTS RS Super Pots and their CTS tone pots, and Mojo and vintage correct 2 pair braid wire and 3 pair Mojo supplied stuff, the pots sounded different, the wire sounded different. I also tested a whole pile of paper in oil tone caps, Jensen copper foils, Russian military, and NOS Sprague paper in oil bees, and some weird mustard cap that sounded terrible. All the caps were the same values yet all sounded radically different. I spent about two months tweaking these guitars' harnesses til they sounded right. I haven't tried AllParts' CTS pots yet but intend to. I am currently buying from different CTS suppliers bag of pots and cherry picking sets that go with my VL PAF's and offering that option for sale. Alpha pots I've had the most problems with too, two that went bad and did extremely strange things that took forever to figure out it was the pot messing things up. Anyway, Dave, this is my personal experience and comes from very recent drudgery of building and rebuilding these two harness sets over and over and listening to all the components, so thats my two cents worth. I would tend to stay away from Bourns type pots, I think the thicker carbon traces lend to more transparent guitar tones because thats what I heard....

As far as taper goes, the RS pots had a real quick drop off but the Mojos' didn't. I tend to not pay much attention to the taper, you just don't notice it that much when you're playing and you just unconsciously adjust to whatever you're using. I see alot of discussions on taper but I've never read anyone say what kind of taper a vintage Les Paul actually has. No one back in those days was talking about pot tapers that I remember. The RS tone pots supposedly have a "vintage taper" whatever that means. If anyone has experience with actual 50's era volume pots I'd love to hear anyone's experience with them. I have a P13 harness with those big vintage pots on it, maybe I'll dig it out and see what its like this afternoon.....

[LtKojak]

I know the larger Alpha pots are not that bad
The small alpha pots on the other hand have a very poor taper

I'm talking about the Bourns pots here.

I don't like the taper of any Alpha I've tried.

[Kindly Killer]

Man, this sucks....
Gibson Guitar Corp. Responds to Federal Raid - YouTube

This has been discussed at length at MIMF, with input from LMI, the broker of the wood. My take after much reading is that FWS was completely irrational and overreaching. I personally am conditioned to disbelieve anything a CEO of a corporation says, but this is a rare case of truth coinciding with a CEO's best interests. BTW I'm neither Gibson lover or hater; can't see myself buying one at current quality levels, but if they ever turn things around I'd love to have a big Gibson jazz box. Anyway, check out the discussion at MIMF (Guitar Building: Acoustic Guitar Building, Electric Guitar Making, Archtop Guitar Building, Guitar Repair, Violin Making, Dulcimer Making, Mandolin Building, Banjo Building, Drum Making! requires registration, and it's a handmade forum script from the 1990's).

[copperheadroads]

I'm talking about the Bourns pots here.

I don't like the taper of any Alpha I've tried.

Oh ok

[santellan]

Sometimes quasi standards are created based on the success of a vendor. In this case EMG with their Molex .100" centers have done just that. So there is an pickup standard connector spacing whether we like it or not. If you want to acquire some sales from their exisiting customer base then you have to support that standard.

Every one else who makes pickups just uses wires as their termination points which is the dominant industry standard. That is why our Toneshaper products are made to support this standard of individual wires on pickups.

Irrespective of "big_teee" comments we are trying to provide a solderless solution that supports all vendors pickups natively except for EMG's. Yes we are not the cheapest wiring kit on the market because we do provide unique value added features to our products that others do not offer, plus we have the boards and cables made and assembled here in California not off-shore.

Being familar with the molex series of connectors the one limiting factor is the housings for the crimped-on terminations are .600" tall, add to this .100" for the male pin strip and you have a .700" tall or long requirement that has to fit in a tele or smaller cavity. This can be a problem and there are other types of connectors that have smaller pin centers and shorter housings so if you are considering setting a standard then I would look into todays' connector offerings instead of settling with a 10 year old one.

I am very interested in this discussion since I will have to accommodate this connector into our product line.

[David Schwab]

Sometimes quasi standards are created based on the success of a vendor. In this case EMG with their Molex .100" centers have done just that. So there is an pickup standard connector spacing whether we like it or not. If you want to acquire some sales from their exisiting customer base then you have to support that standard.

That's really a header intended for circuit boards, which is what it's mounted on. The .100" spacing matches most perfboards and is the standard spacing for inline pins, such as on SIP and DIP packages.

I was using this system for a while, and eventually adopted the same pin layout as EMG for their HZ pickups. This enabled people who were replacing HZ pickups to just plug mine in. The other reason I was using it was incase a cable went bad, since it couldn't be replaced otherwise. Once you get the hang on crimping the pins it's not so bad.

I stopped using it because of the limited space I have in the covers. But it's a nice system.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

Possum - to one of your earlier questions, I've had the AllParts CTS pots apart several times, and they have (what I believe to be) fairly robust carbon traces. I haven't tone the tonal comparisons you've done, but they are pretty darn rugged. I've just had so many clients gripe about the taper (anywhere between a third and half) that I use other stuff.

[Possum]

On the Mojo pots someone measured were they the cheap ones or the hand picked ones? They aren't the same, the hand picked ones have a guaranteed tighter tolerance, the regular ones I have measure as low as 450K which is real useful for bridge pickups. Did get one or two at 500K, I bought 20 of them.

[copperheadroads]

After reading this post I was curious ,so I just checked 20 of the cts pots I got mojo & they all read between 493 & 518 with the exception of 2 that read around 524 & one that read 487

These pots are there standard MOJO CTS , not the premium pots

[LtKojak]

On the Mojo pots someone measured were they the cheap ones or the hand picked ones? They aren't the same, the hand picked ones have a guaranteed tighter tolerance, the regular ones I have measure as low as 450K which is real useful for bridge pickups. Did get one or two at 500K, I bought 20 of them.

From all the CTS 500K audio pots I've gotten from Mojo, not a single one was lower than 495K. Most were 502K-512K.

HTH,