So what in solder "sounds" bad, and what can be done about it?

[Mike Sulzer]

Had you read what I wrote, I'm not ranting against an entire profession.

Also, no impedance issues in an acoustic bass, Mike....

Oh, I read what you wrote all right. When you divide up a profession the way you did into categories that make you happy or not, you are attacking the whole profession. You are just too unaware to realize what you are doing.

And as for impedance, it is general term with more application that just to electrical circuits. Here we are talking about the "impedance" encountered by a surface moving against the air. But keep on talking. You know the saying.

[big_teee]

Oh, I read what you wrote all right. When you divide up a profession the way you did into categories that make you happy or not, you are attacking the whole profession. You are just too unaware to realize what you are doing.

And as for impedance, it is general term with more application that just to electrical circuits. Here we are talking about the "impedance" encountered by a surface moving against the air. But keep on talking. You know the saying.

Easy Guys, We're all among Friends Here!
We still Got that Damn Full Moon thing, Again.
T

[defaced]

In my field (welding), yes. From AWS (American Welding Society):

Education and Experience Requirements for Access to the Examinations
Each individual for qualification as an AWS CWEng shall possess one of the following combinations of education and relevant experience to be eligible for the AWS CWEng examination. You must meet one of the conditions below in order to gain entrance to the examination.

1. Individuals with a Bachelor of Science (B.Sc.) degree in engineering and a minimum of one (1) year of related experience.
2. Individuals with a Bachelor of Science (B.Sc.) degree in engineering technology and a minimum of two (2) years of related experience.
3. Individuals with other related Bachelor of Science (B.Sc.) degrees and a minimum of five (5) years of related experience.
4. Individuals with an Associate in Applied Science (A.A.S.) degree and a minimum of ten (10) years of related experience.
5. Individuals who have successfully completed high school or an equivalent program and a minimum fifteen (15) years of related experience.

Yes, this is just the criteria to take a test, the issue is that then these people call themselves "Welding Engineers" when they pass it. Though to date, I have never run into a CWEng, just people from the category below. Typically the only people calling themselves WEs are from OSU, Ferris State, or LeTourneau; however, some companies will promote experienced individuals to the position of "Welding Engineer" and these people tend to refer to themselves as such yet typically know little/no theory. While experience is crucial at being effective, and I greatly value experience, experience /= engineer and visa versa. I would not be surprised if other engineering fields are similar in this regard.

As for attacking engineering as a profession, it's a big whoop dee do. There's alot of stiffs, people with chipped shoulders and dead weight - just like very other field. No reason it shouldn't be rung through the ringer like every other profession too.

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

Oh, I read what you wrote all right. When you divide up a profession the way you did into categories that make you happy or not, you are attacking the whole profession. You are just too unaware to realize what you are doing.

And as for impedance, it is general term with more application that just to electrical circuits. Here we are talking about the "impedance" encountered by a surface moving against the air. But keep on talking. You know the saying.

I'm not going to argue the scientific points because it wasn't the point of the first post; it was a bit in passing as I shared an anecdote. Had I cared enough about that specific idea, I would've said more, but I didn't because it wasn't the point of what I was saying.

I'm talking about people who take themselves too seriously to have discussions with other people, and see discussions as opportunities to puff out their chests and routinely call other people stupid. I'm talking about people who won't listen to others' thoughts or ideas because they've already decided that they know everything, and no one else can contribute to their genius.

Don't like my posts, block me.

defaced - I agree. Titles make things difficult. You indeed CAN say it about any profession, and it is used as a crutch, and a way to evade accountability. Someone can say "I'm a professional musician" because they play for tips at a cafe every so often - doesn't mean they know anything about music. I've dealt with doctors who are amazingly bad at their jobs, and read stuff from "professional writers" that would be terrible turned in as high school writing assignments. All these people can have degrees/certifications/whatever, but it really just gets in the way. I could go on and on. It just so happens that this discussion is about engineers; I don't think anyone is singling this profession out, and definitely not me. It is a sign of the times more than anything else, I suspect. Maybe I'm overly sentimental, but I prefer an ethos where people are judged for the quality of their work, not for titles. A brilliant car mechanic is better to me than a bad doctor.

I actually think it is the worst in my own profession, guitar repair/guitar building. At a couple shops I worked at, it became a running gag because people would come in wanting jobs billing themselves as "luthiers" because they did some 6-month program. But, my boss would just ask "can you do... " and list off common repair jobs, and they'd just stand there with blank looks on their faces. A couple got hired, and the false sense of confidence led to lots of expensive screw ups, and lots of arguments about the "correct" way to do things. I don't doubt that those programs are educational, but the false promises of what the certification will bring are dangerous.

Ultimately we're all just trying to make something great and beautiful. If we fail in that, then it all just goes down the toilet like yesterday's sea monkeys. Nothing makes me happier (well, almost nothing) than when I get phone calls or emails from clients who have to tell me how much they love the work I did. I don't think I could go back to a job where I didn't have that. Give me whatever label you want, I'm going to keep working for that.

[Steve Conner]

I remember one engineer asking me "why can't those stupid guitar companies make an acoustic bass that is loud enough!?"

Sounds more like a plain dickhead than an engineer!

Ultimately we're all just trying to make something great and beautiful.

That's one of the reasons why people become engineers. They want to make cool stuff but they think math will help somehow. (It does.)

[Mike Sulzer]

I don't think a well-regulated power supply would sound very good in a guitar amp....the unregulated power supply and the various stages interacting with themselves are a big part of traditional tube based guitar amps and contribute a lot to the touch responsiveness of those amps. Now if you're talking hi-fi amps, then I would tend to agree with your statement.

Greg

It is different, but probably not as much as you are thinking. And if you are really a fanatic, you can use a regulator circuit to get the hum way down, and then follow that with RC circuits that store enough energy to give more output on initial transients, but then relax to a lower level. There is a lot you can do.

[Steve Conner]

I concur with Mike! I've built a guitar amp with a regulated power supply, and it's not as bad as you'd think. The time constants of the coupling caps in the signal path give some touch sensitivity to the overdriven sound.

The clean sound ended up a bit hard and dynamic, maybe better suited to bass than guitar.

[salvarsan]

I concur with Mike! I've built a guitar amp with a regulated power supply, and it's not as bad as you'd think. The time constants of the coupling caps in the signal path give some touch sensitivity to the overdriven sound.

The clean sound ended up a bit hard and dynamic, maybe better suited to bass than guitar.

Ayup.

The Dumble compression tweak was to add a huge RC shunt from plate to grid on the second pre-amp stage.
That 22Meg resistor was memorable.


RE: 2nd order diffy Q's and voltage coefficients of resistance

C'mon, guys. It isn't that important.
It's a quick rough approximation to illustrate the concept better than hand-waving arguments and proof by loud assertion.

If you don't like the approximation, fix it.

There's even a MatLab (or Octave) script so you can tweak it.

[imaradiostar]

I wouldn't trust any engineer who didn't know how to drill holes and solder things. They would be more of a mathematician or manager.

The guys Jamie is talking about should be forced to assemble one of their own designs every now and again, to give them a feel for how things go together.

Steve also an engineer

Thankfully all the guys I work with directly are very hands-on. We all fabricate and assemble things as the job requires. I was just saying it's good that we have the kind of shop where I'm the lowly engineering tech and my opinions and thoughts on design and assembly are respected and used to improve our products.

That aside- it's funny how an engineer will draw something up with unrealistically tight tolerances that are difficult to implement in the real world. Actual assembly usually requires adjusting the sizes and locations of mounting holes and adjusting lengths of wiring harnesses. It's really no different from building amps by myself, come to think of it!

jamie

[salvarsan]

If an engineer can't solder, they can't say "hardware" when they describe their abilities.

If you can solder, you can say you can solder.

If you have build it with your hands, you truly *know* it, with or without the degree/certification.

-hizself

[David Schwab]

Easy Guys, We're all among Friends Here!
We still Got that Damn Full Moon thing, Again.
T

The full moon is on the 10th.

[soundmasterg]

It is different, but probably not as much as you are thinking. And if you are really a fanatic, you can use a regulator circuit to get the hum way down, and then follow that with RC circuits that store enough energy to give more output on initial transients, but then relax to a lower level. There is a lot you can do.

Well I'll probably have to build one at some point to see just how bad it sounds as compared to an unregulated one. That'll be down the road a ways though.

Greg

[RedHouse]

The full moon is on the 10th.

So we're just ramping-up then?

[RedHouse]

...If you have build it with your hands, you truly *know* it, with or without the degree/certification....

Well said, and true as can be.

[RedHouse]

{double post}