New Mojotone USA humbucker baseplates

[David Schwab]

Hi David

You are right, However I assume that Mojo, Addiction and anyone else are trying to make a replica baseplate for the vintage fans.

They aren't making these. They are buying them from companies that make pickup parts, and usually from Korea. And actually those companies make pickups, and just happen to sell the parts. They aren't making them as after market parts. Being a vintage fan is fine, but if it's something that has no bearing on the tone of the pickup, and is purely cosmetic, AND can't be seen when the pickup is installed, who cares?

Players should be educated IMO so they stop having these ridiculous notions!

As an example, I once had a customer ask me at make him some Jazz bass pickups. He wanted closed covers, but wanted gray flatwork. WTF? I asked him how many times he planned on taking the pickups out of the bass to look at the bottom of them! When confronted, he realized there was no reason at all to have gray flatwork, except it fit into some kind of fantasy in his head.

It's like guitar cosplay. lol

[David Schwab]

Another thing to consider: make the same baseplates but with SHORT LEGS.

Nobody make'em and, to be honest, you need long legs with Jazz boxes ONLY. All other guitars, let's say, 90%, don't NEED long legs. And some guitars (PRS and many Japanese vintage AND nowadays instruments, and many hi-quality Korean ones) take short legs ONLY. With this data in hand, I'd say make the short-legged model standard, and charge a premium for vintage-accurateness.

HTH,

The long legs are useless and make the pickup wobble. They really should have three or four adjusting screws too. The Gibson way of doing it is old and obsolete but people keep hanging on for tradition sake.

[ReWind]

David,

From a logical standpoint, I fully agree with everything you are saying. I also have been tinkering with many of my own pickup designs lately and trying some far out stuff and just generally having fun searching for new sonic signatures and methods of reproducing mechanical energy into electrical using whatever is available. I also like taking what I've learned through classic designs and concepts and combining it with newer information and ideas in complementary ways. Your threads are inspiring, in that regard. I really enjoy them and your encouragement for folks to pursue their own ideas, not just replicate, and I fully agree.

That said, please take into consideration a few very basic concepts when you dismiss the value of accuracy in all forms regarding clone/replica/copy/vintage inspired/whatever you want to call it pickups (or anything else for that matter).

It's something that paying customers ask for. Supply/demand. - that's not my personal motivation, but there's no denying it's there and it may be enough to motivate someone else.

There is a PASSION for it. This is my reason. Some people enjoy playing old music, restoring or recreating old cars, collecting old pinball machines, wearing analog watches, drinking old Scotch, listening to records over DVDA's and HD files, building or listening through inaccurate and inefficient tube amps, collecting old baseball cards. How about making finely detailed models of old trains or aircraft? Restoring or recreating old M1 Garand rifles and Colt Navy revolvers. How about writing calligraphy with fountain pens? Using chopsticks to eat a meal. The list of enjoyed hobbies and crafts based on history is almost endless. Building these old pickups is something I take great pleasure and pride in, as I'm sure others do. Building or restoring old guitars is a passion for some. Finding an authentic pickup for an authentic replica guitar or for restoring an old guitar that was gutted and had the PAFs replaced with Super Distortions may be the equivalent to finding the perfect original or replica hood ornament for a fine old automobile. Any other would make it run just as well and cost less and be unique. That's not what the owner is after though. This is all about enjoyment for me. There's no chasing tone fairies or an endless search for some mystical sonic signature that I believe will make me or someone else a better player (though great tone and responsive feel can inspire one to play/practice more). I just plain LOVE this stuff and find much enjoyment in it. …in fact, next to family, friends, and learning, enjoying this craft is one of the greatest pleasures in my life. I'm sure others feel the same. "Newer" and "innovative" are very important, but do not necessarily equate "better" and, in some cases, "tone" is actually NOT the only factor that matters. Consider that there are many paths to the same tonal destination, and it's not even the exact destination that some are concerned with most, as long as it's in that range of tones they love, but the journey itself.

Another side to this is the saying, "a thing worth doing is worth doing right." One could easily make an equal or better sounding, more functional, baseplate for much less effort and cost. …but those aren't the goals here. So if one is going to these great efforts to make a replica part, why be satisfied with 95% of the way there? At the point of having invested so much time, thought, money, and effort into it, it seems only logical to see it all the way through to 100%, or as close as possible.

Don't be so quick to dismiss the importance of a non-seen and not sonically relevant part of a pickup when the buyer or builder has a passion for it. We all grow illogical attachments to inanimate objects. It's part of being human and part of life that brings joy to us. That's ok. Heck, it's GREAT!

My take on it at least. All said with great respect and sincerity.

[David Schwab]

...collecting old baseball cards....

But those are real old baseball cards, not copies of old baseball cards made to look old. That would be counterfeiting. There's nothing wrong with collecting old guitars. I even have some ('74 Fender Mustang, '59 Jazzmaster, '64 Mosrite bass, and more that I have since sold), but IMO making a new guitar look old is just wish fulfillment. And in most cases genuine old guitars don't look like these scratched up worn out "relics" that you see. I play a 25 year old Ibanez bass, and it looks fairly new. The few scratches and dings it has actually bother me, because I treat my instruments with respect. Same with my Mustang (except for the warped celluloid pickguard). Problem is the collects have bought up all the mint instruments, and left the chaff. Now people want to recreate the beat up used guitars that no one wanted. People with rusty guitars just never took care of them (and probably have bad personal hygiene too! lol). Would you buy an used car that was beat to crap and rusted? probably not.

So yeah, old guitars are cool. Fake old guitars are just dumb IMHO. So it's just a fashion fad, and in 10 years people will be doing something else, and those relic guitars will look dumb, just like sunburst guitars looked in the 80s.

[the great waldo]

, So it's just a fashion fad, and in 10 years people will be doing something else, and those relic guitars will look dumb, just like sunburst guitars looked in the 80s.

Hi David

Again you are mostly right, and in all honesty I don't blame you getting rattled about it. It is a fashion fad and is sponsored by many of the firms that made the original guitars in the first place. I get guys buying new guitars and asking me to relic them, it maybe makes them think that they are better players, who knows ? Funny thing is, i've played a lot of really nice Fender road worn guitars that I really wished had a nice shiny new finish. Maybe the fad will fade although I can't see it myself as production wise think of the benefits of not worrying about getting a mark in the finish, also a bonus for the retailers same reason a dink or a dong from a careless customer, no problem. I must agree with rewind that if a jobs worth doing it's worth doing properly. Hence making a repro of a part should be done as accurately as possible. To be fair to Mojotone they have marketed the more expensive baseplates as an American product and not a repro (although I assume they have made it with replica in mind) in which case they should get it right. Possum is probably the authoritative rivet counter (model making term no disrespect meant) to check the plates out and maybe point the manufacturers in the right direction.

Cheers

Andrew

[David Schwab]

I'm talking from my own preference on it, and clearly some people like them. I don't.

One thing about this stuff, and I bet this is how it got started, is that companies like Fender and Gibson often have factory seconds. They might be scratched or dented or have some other cosmetic flaw. Well now you can bang them up some more and sell them!

Gibson loves the "faded" finishes because they can save labor by not buffing the guitars out. They took that a step further with the BFG Les Paul that wasn't even finished making through woodworking! Less labor and they are still making a profit. It really says "screw you, you're a sucker and you'll buy anything with our name on it" to the customers IMO. There's a lack of craftsmanship but they are making you think this is something you want. Like buying a new dented and rusty car. How about a brand new flatscreen TV with scratches? "But it's a feature!" So why guitars?

On the other hand, you have those meticulously distressed artist models. That's not my thing, but I did play a Joe Strummer Tele that I liked. But I probably would have liked it better shiny and without rested parts.

I did get asked to distress a set of pickups with black metal covers for a BFG bass. That might actually be fun, and who knows, I might change my mind. people do that I hear. lol

[JGundry]

Dave you don't get it. Musicians have always wanted distresses copies of the best vintage instruments. Distressed Strad copies were being made as soon as Strads became sought after. The best of these copies sell for big money. Tone and attention to detail determine the value for both collectors and pro musicians. The same applies to vintage guitars, pickups etc. and their repros.

[jason lollar]

my customers are the same people everyone elses customers are with the exception maybe I deal more often with more of the bigger guitar companies like fender gibson prs godin maton. i work for cork sniffers and the top pros and the techs and the repair places and the vintage dealers just like everyone else.
I quit using the long legs probably 10 years ago because there are so many guitars they wont fit and i have had maybe two people say something about it in ten years, i dont see anyone claiming the long legs make it sound better i just see people saying thier customers demand it, never had that happen to me about that so it seems odd but i have seen alot of odd things.

[Steve A.]

With the longer legs you can raise the pickup higher- even higher than the strings if that is what you want.

Steve

[Steve A.]

... The replacement pickup market started out with offering something different (Bartolini, DiMarzio, Lawrence), so either you were getting hotter pickups, or cleaner pickups, and now it's evolved into a lot of clones of rare vintage pickups. Thats OK too.

DiMarzio came out with their PAF copy early in the game- and then SD came along with theirs which everyone said was even more authentic. Of course both of those companies were making hotter pickups back then as well, which were popular with the guitarists who wanted more more louder louder...

Steve

[David Schwab]

Dave you don't get it. Musicians have always wanted distresses copies of the best vintage instruments. Distressed Strad copies were being made as soon as Strads became sought after. The best of these copies sell for big money. Tone and attention to detail determine the value for both collectors and pro musicians. The same applies to vintage guitars, pickups etc. and their repros.

No they didn't. I'm talking about the electric guitar market. This is a fairly recent thing. I've been following this stuff a long time, like 42 years. After all, if you go back a bit the vintage guitars were not as old and much easier to get. I've bought lots of them. I had like 15 at one point. The collectors have inflated the market, making vintage guitars very expensive and hard to get. All that was left was the junk no one wanted, and that's what these distressed guitars look like. I've had a lot of vintage guitars, and still have a few, and they weren't distressed. Stuff like buckle rash would lower the price on an old guitar. Even my '87 Ibanez bass, which could be considered vintage today, looks fairly new.

Strad copies are more considered counterfeits than anything else. That's why they were made to look old. People would pass them off for the real thing.

I've played a real Strad by the way, not that I'm much of a violinist, but I used to play a bit.

Anyway I say this distressed instrument thing is a fad, and will pass in time, along with the rest of guitar styles... we've had sunbursts that no longer fit the music of the time, then natural finishes, and then solid colors, and then back to sunbursts and natural finishes, etc. It goes around and around. Remember when you couldn't give away a Les Paul in the 80s? I bought one for $150. That will likely happen again at some point. It's all fashion.

[David Schwab]

With the longer legs you can raise the pickup higher- even higher than the strings if that is what you want.

Why would you want to do that? When it's lower it wobbles. have it adjustable to range it needs to be, not where you will never set it.

[SonnyW]

DiMarzio came out with their PAF copy early in the game- and then SD came along with theirs which everyone said was even more authentic. Of course both of those companies were making hotter pickups back then as well, which were popular with the guitarists who wanted more more louder louder...

Steve

I kind of agree, but I think there is a different reason they all wanted loud and LOUDER back then. It was the whole stadium rock thing and it started with Jimi and a few others like the Who and Cream that daisy chained their amps usually the Super Leads by running a cable between the extra inputs. That effectively split the output of the pickup, so to get the same effect on each amp you needed hotter output to push the front end of the amp around enough. The trade off was the difference in tone. But they needed louder to fill up the arena. Then a lot of bands like Blue Oyster Cult and Slayer and Yngwie Malmsteen and others all took it to the max and started stacking up all the amps they could fit on stage splitting the input even more, and it had a different sound which they capitalized on because there wasn't anything else they could do back then if they wanted to get enough volume to fill up the venues. They had to use pedals like the Tube Screamers to get much distortion with that kind of rig. Nowdays there are plenty of other ways to fill up stadiums, miking with big PA's etc. so the only reason now for the super hot pickups is really the kind of sound they make. Just my 2 cents.

[David Schwab]

I kind of agree, but I think there is a different reason they all wanted loud and LOUDER back then. It was the whole stadium rock thing and it started with Jimi and a few others like the Who and Cream that daisy chained their amps usually the Super Leads by running a cable between the extra inputs. That effectively split the output of the pickup, so to get the same effect on each amp you needed hotter output to push the front end of the amp around enough. The trade off was the difference in tone. But they needed louder to fill up the arena. Then a lot of bands like Blue Oyster Cult and Slayer and Yngwie Malmsteen and others all took it to the max and started stacking up all the amps they could fit on stage splitting the input even more, and it had a different sound which they capitalized on because there wasn't anything else they could do back then if they wanted to get enough volume to fill up the venues. They had to use pedals like the Tube Screamers to get much distortion with that kind of rig. Nowdays there are plenty of other ways to fill up stadiums, miking with big PA's etc. so the only reason now for the super hot pickups is really the kind of sound they make. Just my 2 cents.

Right. Pickups got louder because players wanted louder pickups. If you listen back on a lot of late 60s/70s rock, either the guitars were not as distorted as you might hear now, or they were using some type of fuzz or booster pedal. I played with people that had Hiwatt or Orange amps, and your ears would bleed before they got much breakup out of those things. I still flinch when I see an Orange amp! So people started trying to get the guitars louder. They removed the pickup covers. Some put larger magnets under the pickups, like the Alembic hotrod kit.

So the next obvious step were pickups louder than the stock models, which were made for the music of the 1950s, and on to something that worked with the players of the time, and the music of the time. As rock music progressed, the guitar tones changed. People moved away from fuzz pedals, and more into amp distortion, possibly aided by a pedal.

So it's not a bad thing to get away from PAFs and vintage Strat pickups. Music changes. Some of the tones stay the same, and some don't. That's progress. The same is true in electric bass tones. And even drums and keyboards.

Not that long ago the banjo was what the guitar is today in popular music. The guitar has not yet been replaced, but it has evolved into something new.

[JGundry]

Strad copies are more considered counterfeits than anything else. That's why they were made to look old. People would pass them off for the real thing.

Dave you are wrong about Strad copies. Jean-Baptiste Vuillaume - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sure, Strad copies have been passed off as authentic but there has always been a market for copies of the best and most iconic instruments. Vintage electric guitars are no different. But you have to wait for scarcity to reach a tipping point with demand before prices and go up for even well worn instruments. The same happened with violins and now vintage guitars. No surprise. It was not so long ago that dealers and collectors scoured Italy for fine violins. If an iconic vintage instrument is well worn, and most are, then there is a built in market for well worn copies to sell to musicians both pro and amateur. Intentionally won copies of violins and guitars run can be cheap copies or works of art and like anything else you pay more for a work of art.