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Hi guys! I have a 61 paf that my grandfather gave me before he passed away with a couple other things.But........ it was unopened and he did tell me that the only thing was that pickup that I gave you dose not work so you are going to have to get it rewound.soooo I know that he potted his own pickups and ummmmm I opened it up and the frekin thing looks like a frekin taco shell!!!!! it was so melted that both the butyrate bobbins had coils fused into them because the lips had melted down onto them and down onto the lower bobbin shelf.But I want to get it rewound and I would buy a pair from mojotone but they just are not accurate enough for me!!!! I know throbak and others make them but not as separate parts.But I am desperate for a screw and slug side of both black and I was just wondering if there were any of you guys that can make me a pair that just dont sell them like a business?????? that are accurate butyrate paf bobbins buttttt if you can make me a pair send me a message! or send me an email at hotshot991@gmail.com so we can talk get some pics and name me a price, but thanks guys and feel free to respond thanks!-jake
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Hi Hotshot991
Whats not accurate enough about the mojo butyrate bobbins ??
Andrew -
Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
Milano, ItalyComment
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Apparently he didn't read about the right Mojo bobbins.
Here is what is in the Mojo Description.
Sounds pretty accurate to me!
It also explains why you don't want to get them too hot!
Set of Mojotone Cream Vintage PAF Butyrate Humbucker Slug and Screw Side Bobbins 49.2mm or 1.94". One slug side bobbin and one screw side bobbin.
Authentic reproduction of an original late 50's PAF butyrate bobbin. These were molded using an actual late 50's PAF bobbin so every detail is spot on including the color and texture. They even smell like the originals! If you want to build a REAL PAF or properly restore an original, then look no further. These are as authentic as it gets. Made in the USA
NOTE** Butyrate is softer with a lower melting point as compared to our standard Mojotone bobbins. That said, you should be more careful when wax potting these as they could melt over 140F. Also the texture of butyrate is grainy looking, just like the originals, so they don't have a smooth and glossy appearance like our standard Mojotone bobbins."If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference of the Devil in the House of Commons." Winston Churchill
TerryComment
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Maybe he wants the molded in numbers hidden once it is wound (is that detail important?). Have you asked Throwback if they would restore your pickup?Comment
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Hey guys hows it going! im sorry I haven't been able to reply sooner but my stupid computer died on me! but hey jim, I read your comment and that would be nice but... that doesn't really matter to me much because really no one is going to see it, and yes I did ask throbak and wizz pickups, and a couple other but all of them said no... But what I mean is ya the mojos are the most accurate dimensionally but, one I don't know if its the cooling process or who their butyrate distributor is but the butyrate they use is way!! to shiny compared to the original pafs, and really the only other cosmetic problem with the mojos is the parting lines, you guys know the line that goes right down the middle of the bobbin were the two molding half's were fitted together well the mojos dont have that...well they do but the parting lines are on the side of the actual bobbin lips.If you guys have a mojo bobbin look at that and you will realize what I am talking about but I like mojo! don't get me wrong they are a very good service but the bobbins are dimensionally perfect in the whole business but they don't cosmetically look anything like an original paf considering there are also other details I didnt mention like the extra filled in hole on the end if the slug side bobbins on an original paf...etc
but feel free to respond and I didn't make this thread to bash mojotone I was just wondering if their were any molders out their who have made or make bobbins from original pafs bobbins that haven't been tweaked and messed with like the others.Comment
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If I didn't know any better - I'd say that you're trying to fool someone into thinking that the guitar is worth more than it really is. I say that because, if you really wanted to play it, you'd just buy the mojo bobbins and get it singing again. Who cares about a stupid molding crease? Just buff it out! Same with the shininess; dont you think that maybe - JUST MAYBE - the originals were that shiny when they were new??
-RobComment
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Yeah, they wont ever be real PAFs again. Plus if you are getting just bobbins, how are you going to wind them like the real thing?
You are probably better off getting one of the PAF repro makers, like Dave Stevens or Throbak to rebuild them for you. Or even Seymour Duncan.It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein
http://coneyislandguitars.com
www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoonComment
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rob im sorry that I am just trying to restore a pickup that my dead grandfather gave me.... hey dave! ya lol I know paf's will never be made again like an original but to tell you the truth after I got the bobbins I was going to actually send it to Seymour to get it rewound, I am probably just going to buy a throbak paf like you said and just get the addiction bobbins and do some work on them but thanks for the ideas david and talk to ya later-jake
p.s. its not that I want to be able to say hey look I have a paf or try to make it off like I have a guitar with rare pafs but its just the thought that my grandfather gave it to me.Comment
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I'm sure that no matter how you fix it up; he'd be glad you did. If there's any life after death, he's probably chortling at his own folly, "no wonder the dang thing, didnt work! LOL Poor boy, I hope he gets it figured out alright...Hey Jesus! I need a favor!" HehehOriginally posted by hotshot991 View Post
-RobComment
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I just read my last comment and lol im sorry I didn't realize how snappy it sounded but thanks rob! and lol I am probably just going to buy those mojos and fix it up. But believe me, if you knew my grandfather he is exactly the way you described him lol I know one thing for sure my grandfather and jesus are exchanging jokes right now lol.Originally posted by rhgwynn View Post
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You can buy a Throbak and then swap the bobbins onto your original parts. That would give you a mostly original PAF with period correct bobbins and windings.Originally posted by hotshot991 View PostIt would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein
http://coneyislandguitars.com
www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoonComment
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If you want the pickups as close to original as possible don't touch them. Leave the wire on the coils. If you want me to repair them I will measure the ohms per foot and diameter of the original wire then I will weigh the wire. After establishing the TPL count I can pretty well duplicate the original coil wind count. I can then wind them on either the Leesona 102' the vintage Gibson made Slug 101 winder or the Meteor winder which should be set up in the next few weeks. The machine choice depends upon the original winding pattern and turn per layer.
If you already stripped the wire and threw it away I can wind coils that are period correct. But for anyone with vintage pickups like this that need repair always leave the coil in tact until you get the TPL count and unwind enough wire to establish ohms per foot and outside diameter.Comment
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Mr Gundry any idea - did Gibson change the traverser gear from time to time or did they have a few leesonas with different guitars in each one or why would the TPL vary? Distance of wire guide from the bobbin varying? Did they set the traverse travel to different lengths for some reason?Comment
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Gibson had at least 3 machine models making P.A.F.'s, maybe 4. They were the Leesona 102, a Gibson made slug winder, the ME-301 and maybe the Geo winder they used for P-90's in the 50's.Originally posted by jason lollar View Post
The Gibson made slug winder has one traverse speed so no changing that.
The Leesona 102 has a rock solid geared traverse that requires removal of the drive shaft, drive pulley and the gears and oil seals for each of the three heads. It is an all day job, I have done it. My dad is a certified mechanic and I maintained a '64 Studebaker Daytona for years and it still took all day to change the traverse gears on the Leesona 102. This is just a hunch, but given the oily hassle it is to change the pitch on the Leesona 102, I would bet it was avoided by Gibson and rarely done, if ever, once set up.
I don't know how many Leesonas Gibson had but I suspect they eventually had two. A Leesona 102 and later a Leesona 102B which has more reliable counters and would help explain varying turn count accuracy over the P.A.F. era. Seymour Duncan has two Leesonas but I was told that the second one was not from Gibson and is used for parts to keep the one from Gibson running.
The ME-301 has a variable pitch knob adjustment that easily changes the traverse speed. It has a convenient needle that points to the wire gauge you want to use. Gibson would logically use this machine if it wanted to change the traverse pitch. The catch is if the variable pitch is adjusted with the spindle not in motion, the mechanism will wear immediately which will cause the drive power to slip dropping the effective turn per layer count. I believe this wear accounts for some of the P.A.F. turn per layer counts below the Leesona 102 turn per layer count. The ME-301 was made from the 50's to the 70's and Gibson still uses these machines as you can pack a lot of bobbins on them. But you have to be real careful about prematurely aging the friction disc on the machine as the only replacement is made in Poland and is not real easy to get.
The Geo machine Gibson modified to stack four P-90 bobbins is a geared traverse that is easy to change. Maybe it was used for P.A.F.'s but I can't say for sure.
Distance from wire guide to the bobbin varies with all of these machines by model. Wire guide distance to bobbin does matter IMO. Wire guide distance is baked into the Gibson made slug winder. I have photos of the Geo and ME-301 machines at the Kalamazoo plant and can work out the wire guide distance from those photos. Interestingly Gibson Kalamazoo had the ME-301 set up for 6 bobbins with the Meteor brand wire guides. Now in Nashville they are set up for 10 bobbins with a custom made wire guide and tension set up, different from the old Meteor guides. Also if Gibson had more then one Leesona or ME-301 it would account for the differences in travel distance and alignment.Last edited by JGundry; 02-12-2013, 03:46 AM.Comment
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