what do you guys think about this

[David Schwab]

I agree with you on all counts there. In each of the bobbin material tests, the pickup winds were identical, and all the clips sounded like "the same pickup". It's not like the bobbin material made it sound like a different wind or different magnet. I like to equate it to experimenting with 5 good cables. All 5 cables will still make your Les Paul sound like a Les Paul, loaded with Antiquites, 500k pots, bumblebee caps, etc. The cables won't make it sound like it has 59's or is made of walnut, etc.

To me listening with expensive headphones, they all sounded exactly the same. The only differences I heard was in the way the clips were played. It also doesn't help listing them as more preferable and less preferable. If you really want to do a listening test, you can't lead the test subjects.

So if you all actually heard a difference, it seems it wasn't able to be recorded. So it must have been an audio vampire? lol

[frankfalbo]

I'm not sure you're understanding. Re:bobbins, I heard a difference when I did the tests, I still hear a difference now, and I posted the initial audio files without listing the materials. So anyone on the pickup makers forum listening would not have been tainted. But it wouldn't matter to me either way. It was more something to make you think, and if any pickup maker here on the forum wanted to go further they'd conduct their own tests. I'm not doing research for the pickup makers forum, I'm doing it for whatever project I'm working on. If the results are not too proprietary then I'll share them.

Same with keeper bar holes. I'll share what I feel comfortable and then you guys do with it what you will. Agree, disagree, call it inconsequential, no big deal.

The 50-100ms quote from me is only in reference to the difference I hear in the attack and envelope. I'm not saying the pickup has latency in its delivery of the audio. I can detect about 3ms of latency as a player, that's not what I'm referring to. I used the term latency in the amount of time it takes the pickup to produce a nice, solid note. If I say the attack and rise time contain these woofy artifacts for the first 50-100ms, I just mean that's where I notice it. If you're strumming away I don't perceive it. It's in the "beep bop bop" staccato notes that I hear it, when the field is at rest prior to the note.

The fact that you listen to the bobbin clips and can't hear a difference has nothing to do with whether there is a difference. But I suppose you can say "if I don't hear it, it doesn't exist" but I default to "everything makes a difference, but do I care?"

[David Schwab]

No, you didn’t list bobbin materials, but you did have them as more preferable and less preferable, or something to that affect.

Did anyone else here hear a difference?

This reminds me of Sunkist Orange Soda. It has caffeine in it. Since oranges don’t have caffeine, they clearly add it to the soda. When asked why they do that, they replied that since caffeine is bitter, it cuts some of the sweetness of the soda. (like using less sugar or more citric acid wouldn’t accomplish the same thing), however, only men can taste caffeine. So if it was really being used as a flavoring additive, they are missing part of the total market. (In this case we know the real reason why they put caffeine in, but I was using it as an example.)

So likewise, if some people can’t hear a difference in bobbin material, what’s the point? Seems like it was a big expense for marginal gain.

You know I’m all for doing something new with pickups. I thought the pickups sounded like an interesting idea, but I still didn’t hear a difference with the bobbins.

[frankfalbo]

I don't want anyone to confuse the bobbin tests with the zephyr silver project. The bobbin tests were just standard copper 59's but unpotted. Each were wound and assembled by the same 30+ year veteran master to be as equal as any two pickups could ever be. The bobbin tests were only for the sake of bobbin testing. It was after that (and in light of the data) when we chose GFN to be part of the zephyr recipe.

[CRU JONES]

no I mean milliSiemens. The computer I bought in 2000 had 11milliSiemens of delay, it sucked. But I don't record guitars "through" anyway so it doesn't matter.

[David King]

That's not really enough seimens to impregnate anything.

[Joe Gwinn]

no I mean milliSiemens. The computer I bought in 2000 had 11milliSiemens of delay, it sucked. But I don't record guitars "through" anyway so it doesn't matter.

Not a unit of delay, but of electrical conductance.

Siemens (unit) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia