Polished vs Un-polished Magnets

[ScottA]

OT but important IMHO.



I'm not an EE, but have a certain degree of knowledge and "higher than average" education in physics.
I totally agree. The Internet has changed things or accelerated them, in that some patently potty ideas are bounded around by the wide-eyed - and it seems the more nuts the idea, the more people get excited.

I know many are trying to establish and affirm their positions as experts in their little fields, and feel that weird arcane beliefs will help. I just don't know why they don't want to read a physics book.

One that gets-to me recently is the incredible "Tracking speed" idea that even gets aired on pickup manufacturing sites.

Go hang out on TDPRI for awhile...

(edit) not referring to "tracking speed" specifically, just the amount of psuedo-engineering hearsay.

[big_teee]

I'll Bite!
What is the Tracking Speed, thing?

[Plectrum]

I'll Bite!
What is the Tracking Speed, thing?

The ideas is spreading... But I think years ago, when we had hex/midi pickups, people experienced a lag whilst the processing software established the Frequency of the incoming signal, and sent a midi note on at the same pitch (hopefully).

You also have lots of hi-fi enthusiasts talking about the "speed" of their 6000 dollar interconnects.

Now, it seems that people are applying the same idea to pickups. Although EM photons and electrons "travel" at speeds approaching the speed of light, some people with acute, "special" hearing can hear a lag in some inferior pickups. Apparently.

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/mai...ckup=aftermath

Post #2
Semore Duncan VS. DiMarzios - Les Paul Forums

Dimarzio:

"...Model has a modern rather than a vintage sound. It’s warmer and louder (160mV output) than a typical vintage single-coil and — of course — it’s hum-canceling. It’s also faster. The Neck Model tracks high-speed solos at high gain without becoming either thin or muddy, "


A few manufacturers are using this in their blurb, though that is not to say that they believe it, obviously. It does make me twitchy though. When you really try to make sense of the world, it gets just a bit more boring when people throw more and more superstition at you - as if you're some kind of moron for not jumping on the wide-eye wagon.
It was one thing to watch amateur audio "philes" congratulating themselves on knowing more than science about sound fidelity... But musicians are meant to be at least a little more clever, or professional? No?
:-)

[big_teee]

The ideas is spreading... But I think years ago, when we had hex/midi pickups, people experienced a lag whilst the processing software established the Frequency of the incoming signal, and sent a midi note on at the same pitch (hopefully).

You also have lots of hi-fi enthusiasts talking about the "speed" of their 6000 dollar interconnects.

Now, it seems that people are applying the same idea to pickups. Although EM photons and electrons "travel" at speeds approaching the speed of light, some people with acute, "special" hearing can hear a lag in some inferior pickups. Apparently.

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/mai...ckup=aftermath

Post #2
Semore Duncan VS. DiMarzios - Les Paul Forums

Dimarzio:

"...Model has a modern rather than a vintage sound. It’s warmer and louder (160mV output) than a typical vintage single-coil and — of course — it’s hum-canceling. It’s also faster. The Neck Model tracks high-speed solos at high gain without becoming either thin or muddy, "


A few manufacturers are using this in their blurb, though that is not to say that they believe it, obviously. It does make me twitchy though. When you really try to make sense of the world, it gets just a bit more boring when people throw more and more superstition at you - as if you're some kind of moron for not jumping on the wide-eye wagon.
It was one thing to watch amateur audio "philes" congratulating themselves on knowing more than science about sound fidelity... But musicians are meant to be at least a little more clever, or professional? No?
:-)

Thanks very much for the run down.
I didn't realize my old fashioned pickups were so Slow!
Maybe we need to feed them high Octane fuel.
How does the hex head screw speed them up?
Or is the Hex head a sign-post that speed is ahead and metal is played here?
Sounds like the dual slug bobbins with ceramics would make it go fast! lol
T

[David Schwab]

Although EM photons and electrons "travel" at speeds approaching the speed of light...

Not approaching... in empty space photons travel at the speed of light. Virtual or otherwise.

[David Schwab]

Dimarzio:

"...Model has a modern rather than a vintage sound. It’s warmer and louder (160mV output) than a typical vintage single-coil and — of course — it’s hum-canceling. It’s also faster. The Neck Model tracks high-speed solos at high gain without becoming either thin or muddy, "

It seems they are talking about the tone, and about note definition, and not really speed. The speed is from you playing. If you have a really dark tone, and play very fast, no one can hear what notes you are playing because the tone is not clear.

That's the way I interpret that anyway.

[salvarsan]

The ideas is spreading... But I think years ago, when we had hex/midi pickups, people experienced a lag whilst the processing software established the Frequency of the incoming signal, and sent a midi note on at the same pitch (hopefully).

12 ms is the 82Hz one cycle period of E2, the bottom E string. There are some savvy mechanisms for inferring the fundamental from a short burst of harmonics but I don't know about them.

Single note latency at 31.5 kHz data clock is an irreducible 12 ms to acquire the note followed by a bunch of two-byte datagrams for frequency+channel, sound ON, sound off ... and that's on a good day. Even using a faster data stream, a MIDI guitarist pays that 12 ms up front every time.

The rest of us, unlike Robert Fripp and Alan Holdsworth, have only marginally clean techniques that add trash from the "unvoiced" guitar strings which delay output while a chord gets disambiguated, so MIDI has a bunch of unavoidable trade-offs and latencies for guitar players.

You also have lots of hi-fi enthusiasts talking about the "speed" of their 6000 dollar interconnects.

They need more fiber in their diets.

Now, it seems that people are applying the same idea to pickups. Although EM photons and electrons "travel" at speeds approaching the speed of light, some people with acute, "special" hearing can hear a lag in some inferior pickups. Apparently.

closer to 0.6 c in copper and glass, but WTF do I know?
Speed of sound is ~.22 mph, .6 c speed of light is only 500,000 times faster so they may be on to something.

"...Model has a modern rather than a vintage sound. It’s warmer and louder (160mV output) than a typical vintage single-coil and — of course — it’s hum-canceling. It’s also faster. The Neck Model tracks high-speed solos at high gain without becoming either thin or muddy, "

(I'm too jaded even to heave a big sigh)

A few manufacturers are using this in their blurb, though that is not to say that they believe it, obviously. It does make me twitchy though. When you really try to make sense of the world, it gets just a bit more boring when people throw more and more superstition at you - as if you're some kind of moron for not jumping on the wide-eye wagon.
It was one thing to watch amateur audio "philes" congratulating themselves on knowing more than science about sound fidelity... But musicians are meant to be at least a little more clever, or professional? No?
:-)

These people are a bit older than when they first started playing guitar. The science is known enough that there is little new left to talk about, so they need to make shit up and hope nobody calls them on it.

Beats alcoholism, criminal activity, and panhandling for Jesus so I say let 'em divert themselves until the next trendy bag of buzzwords comes along.

It's about guitars, rock and roll, and having fun.
Join in the fun, but don't let it get in the way of making good pickups.

[David Schwab]

These people are a bit older than when they first started playing guitar. The science is known enough that there is little new left to talk about, so they need to make shit up and hope nobody calls them on it.

Beats alcoholism, criminal activity, and panhandling for Jesus so I say let 'em divert themselves until the next trendy bag of buzzwords comes along.

But... what about... the knob?

[mcgruff]

Please tell me that isn't real. If it is, I'm off to look for another, better planet.

[ddlooping]

Please tell me that isn't real. If it is, I'm off to look for another, better planet.

Just remove the knobs from your guitars and see if it makes a difference.

[David Schwab]

Please tell me that isn't real. If it is, I'm off to look for another, better planet.

Unfortunately it is real. Or was real anyway. I think the whole website is gone now. If you Google the company name you can find some really funny threads at some audiophile forums talking about the guy. He would take someone's CD player, take it out of the case, make a wooden case for it, with no shielding or any metal ground plane, and then have these big surplus caps inside just sitting there. Sometimes the wood they were on looked like some scrap he got somewhere. His dad made the wooden cases, so they looked nice. Someone said he worked on his mother's kitchen table, and the customer went out and bought the guy a new soldering station because he as using some cheap soldering iron.

He didn't make those knobs, but he sold that crap on his website, along with C37 lacquer, which is supposed to make everything sound better when you paint it on. Google that for some laughs.

[edit] here's some of his mods:



He also liked to power things from car batteries.

[David Schwab]

Just remove the knobs from your guitars and see if it makes a difference.

My guitars sound better with red knobs. But they have to be wood with nitro lacquer finish. Not poly! And none of those cheap plastic knobs.

[Joe Gwinn]

12 ms is the 82Hz one cycle period of E2, the bottom E string. There are some savvy mechanisms for inferring the fundamental from a short burst of harmonics but I don't know about them.

Cepstrum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They need more fiber in their diets.closer to 0.6 c in copper and glass, but WTF do I know?
Speed of sound is ~0.22 mph, 0.6 c speed of light is only 500,000 times faster so they may be on to something.

Speed of sound is a bit faster than 0.22 mph. More like 0.22 miles per second.

For ordinary coax, electrical signals travel at about 66% of the speed of light for solid polyethylene dielectric, and 75% to 85% for foam polyethylene dielectric. Twisted pair is about the same.

For air-dielectric transmission lines, it can be almost lightspeed.

For fiber, it's 66% of lightspeed.

[Steve Conner]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]22493[/ATTACH]

Awesome. The output transformer cores clamped together with cable ties are the perfect finishing touch.

I've come across cepstrum analysis before, it is used in industrial condition monitoring to figure out which gearwheel in a gearbox is making all the noise.

[salvarsan]

Cepstrum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

RE: cepstrum and other methods for pitch detection:
Now that I've researched it, it seems like all pitch detection methods suck, varying only in degree.
Reported latencies are nominally ~50-60ms latency, best case 15ms.

Speed of sound is a bit faster than 0.22 mph. More like 0.22 miles per second.

Sorry. Brain fart.