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Story of the Suhr pickup magnets :

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  • Story of the Suhr pickup magnets :


    Found this on a from discussion on Suhr Pickups.Do you know who that magnet company is?Could we get those magnets , too ?
    Well here is a little true story. Back when I was working there I did a lot of research on the old pickups. I even used to hand wind pickups on one of the old winders. It had a cam traverse that wasn't adjustable so I didn't use that part of it. I also made Jeff Becks pickups on that winder. Anyway I built some guitars and pickups for Mike Landau since I had a relationship with him from working with Bob Bradshaw and he was one of Bob's many customers. As much as I researched and chatted with the ladies who actually wound the old pickups like Abby, I was unable to convince Landau that they sounded as good as his real deal 61 pickups. I even counted turn by turn layer by layer researching the winding patterns on good old pickups and never could make Mikey like it. Funny thing is when I rewound an old pickup Mike loved it, that left the obvious. One day I sent some old magnets out to the original supplier who made them for them in the 60's. I was fortunate enough to develop a relationship with one of the original engineers at this company (unfortunately now retired). He also happened to save samples from batches that they made every time and still had some from the 60's. Even though they were Alnico 5 the exact manufacturing process changed in the 60's to eliminate the chipping on the edges of the magnets. Basically Leo complained they were too chippy and didn't want to grind the edges of the magnets since that was very labor intensive and still is for anyone who does it they can confirm. What they changed in the process to make them able to cut the rods easier also changed some of the properties of the magnets. My new friend at the company confirmed the samples I sent were still fully charged and had the identical properties of the samples he had on file. This difference nailed it for Landau and I didn't even mention it was a different magnet. It becomes more giving in response, I like to call it smokey, aged sounding even though no loss of Gauss. We use this special magnet made in the USA on all our pickups including the humbuckers. Unfortunately nobody else is using this so it costs me 15x more per magnet than my old employer pays. I'm too paranoid to even try anything else and they continue to raise the price on me every year. That is it in a nutshell. Everything else we do isn't really anything different than others, we play around with tension, winding patterns (to alter the resonant peak) and wire gauge, coating specs etc. All of that gives us variations but the foundation for me are those magnets

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  • #2
    Interesting. Why John won't buy a lifetime supply of magnets if the supplier is raising the price every year? It's always a risky situation to be at the mercy of a single source for a crucial component.
    Aleksander Niemand
    Zagray! amp- PG review Aug 2011
    Without the freedom to criticize, there is no true praise. -Pierre Beaumarchais, playwright (1732-1799)

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    • #3
      "We use this special magnet made in the USA on all our pickups including the humbuckers."

      Really? You do? I didnt know that humbuckers used rods. Huh, learn something new every day!

      BTW, The only magnets (A5 rods) that I have found to fit the description of "special and over-priced" are the A5-Specials from Arnold. These could be what they're using but, who knows...

      Edit: excuse the previous sarcasm but, it MUST be Arnold, because they sell a humbucker bar in the "Special" grade, too.
      Arnold Magnetic Technologies - Alnico Guitar Magnets

      -Rob

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      • #4
        "We use this special magnet made in the USA on all our pickups including the humbuckers."

        I think he is talking about that special magnet material.
        Did someone try those special grade Arnold magnets and what is the tone all about?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by PAF-Boy View Post
          "We use this special magnet made in the USA on all our pickups including the humbuckers."

          I think he is talking about that special magnet material.
          Did someone try those special grade Arnold magnets and what is the tone all about?
          Yeah, it was sarcasm; it's been brought up before and most thought that they were way overpriced. You have to buy certain amounts, and it gets pretttty expensive.

          -Rob

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          • #6
            Interesting. Any pictures?

            Pitted .5"x.187" rod from Master Magnetics 1998. Not sure if this is it, this used to be really common.

            Click image for larger version

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            pitting down the center and chunks missing from the side. This picture is with my phone... Sorry.


            Alnico Magnet Choices - Master Magnetics, Inc.

            The pictures of Alnico bar magnets look pretty rough.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by CRU JONES View Post
              Interesting. Any pictures?

              Pitted .5"x.187" rod from Master Magnetics 1998. Not sure if this is it, this used to be really common.

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]22338[/ATTACH]

              pitting down the center and chunks missing from the side. This picture is with my phone... Sorry.


              Alnico Magnet Choices - Master Magnetics, Inc.

              The pictures of Alnico bar magnets look pretty rough.
              Most of us reject pitted magnets, I think; I know I do. Unless it's just one little pit on the end that I can flip over to the bottom.

              -Rob

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              • #8
                Originally posted by rhgwynn View Post
                Most of us reject pitted magnets, I think; I know I do. Unless it's just one little pit on the end that I can flip over to the bottom.

                -Rob
                ok. thanks. I'm a beginner, so ill make sure to throw these away.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by CRU JONES View Post
                  ok. thanks. I'm a beginner, so ill make sure to throw these away.
                  If they look old and worn and beat the HellOutOf, Customers will pay extra!
                  Last edited by big_teee; 03-10-2013, 09:29 PM.
                  "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference of the Devil in the House of Commons." Winston Churchill
                  Terry

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                  • #10
                    Arnold has a vintage mix of A5 for rod magnets, they are expensive.......
                    They don't make them like they used to... We do.
                    www.throbak.com
                    Vintage PAF Pickups Website

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                    • #11
                      There are a couple of other foundries in the US. I'm not ready to jump to any conclusions about any of this. Too many layers of hearsay going on there and it's too easy for anyone to claim that they use some special something just to throw the customer a bone and get a little jump on their competition. The Customer is the last guy who's going to use his ears to buy a pickup, how can he when he's blowing $75-100 just to get them installed. Once they're in he's going to try to validate his decision no matter how poor.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Suhr might be on to something. We have discussed why old pickups sound different here in the past.

                        I have an old friend who has a mid 60s Strat he got new when he was a kid. I think its a '64 or '65. The pickups sound very different from his newer Strat, even though the magnets are fully charged. It's has a darker smoother tone. Some people like to say the magnets get weaker, and you even have new pickups make with magnets that don't have a full charge, but these did, I checked them one day, and they matched his newer Strat pretty closely.

                        So it makes sense that something is different in the magnet alloy.
                        It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


                        http://coneyislandguitars.com
                        www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JGundry View Post
                          Arnold has a vintage mix of A5 for rod magnets, they are expensive.......
                          Gundry, are you referring to something other than what's in the link I posted??

                          -Rob

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rhgwynn View Post
                            Gundry, are you referring to something other than what's in the link I posted??

                            -Rob
                            The Arnold rod magnets I bought were from Arnold Olgalla and they called it their vintage A5 mix.

                            I have bought rod magnets from Arnold, Permanent Magnet and T&S, these are the last of the USA mad Alnico. I also did a custom order of Rod magnets that were cloned from the magnets of a '64 Strat pickup with one of these three places. The original magnets and the repros did in fact have a nice darker smokey tone for A5.
                            They don't make them like they used to... We do.
                            www.throbak.com
                            Vintage PAF Pickups Website

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JGundry View Post
                              The Arnold rod magnets I bought were from Arnold Olgalla and they called it their vintage A5 mix.

                              I have bought rod magnets from Arnold, Permanent Magnet and T&S, these are the last of the USA mad Alnico. I also did a custom order of Rod magnets that were cloned from the magnets of a '64 Strat pickup with one of these three places. The original magnets and the repros did in fact have a nice darker smokey tone for A5.
                              What realy puzzels me is that those early greybobbin Strat magnets look so much different than the later 60ties magnets.Did not see that grain in any modern magnets and the bevell is so smooth.

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