Gibson quality....

[David Schwab]

whew....david, i can see you had a power breakfast this morning

Actually it was like 3 am, and I was still up working on a bass drawing. We are drawing out all the instruments in full scale on the computer now. Takes a bit of work, but then you have your full size plans. So I'm in the process or taking all thew hand drawn stuff and "digitizing" it.

Maybe i missed it in one of the posts, but i'll ask it anyway....is wood in the figured areas (the darker areas of wood) denser than the plain wood around it?

Well in something like curly maple, you are seeing the grain refract light differently. What's dark one way is light from another angle.

I'm thinking of knots in wood and how tough they can be to saw.

Yeah, knots are very hard. The section of the cherry board I made three basses from, that had the figure, was right around a knot. The wood on that bass was noticeably harder to cut.

Getting back to the curly maple thing... here's what Ken Parker has to say. Keep in mind that Ken made acoustic flat tops and archtops long before he made the Fly.

[corduroyew]

David, I agree with most of the stuff you say on forum, but this thead is something I disagree with you on wholeheartedly. We could both sit and point out why the other person is wrong but that never makes it anywhere. I can hear a difference between figured maple and plane maple. If you can't then fine... but I still can.

And about the violins. Good violins need to be resonant and sustain a little so that the volume doesn't dip when they change bowing directions but if it sustains much longer then that it muddies stuff up. It's about getting everything just right. Not too much and not too little

Check out this list of what to look for in violin tone. Take notice of the bottom paragraph where it tells you that you don't want too much sustain

http://www.zaretandsonsviolins.com/goodtoneviolin.html

I going to have to walk away from this one. I hope we can agree to disagree just because our ears must be hearing things differently.

[corduroyew]

whew....david, i can see you had a power breakfast this morning


Maybe i missed it in one of the posts, but i'll ask it anyway....is wood in the figured areas (the darker areas of wood) denser than the plain wood around it?

I'm thinking of knots in wood and how tough they can be to saw.

The dark spots that are denser are knots and growth rings. In some types of figure, like birds eye, the dark spots are from growth rings and so the dark spots are more dence.

[Spence]

The dark spots that are denser are knots and growth rings. In some types of figure, like birds eye, the dark spots are from growth rings and so the dark spots are more dence.

This is from WiseGEEK :

Birdseye maple, one of the rarest kinds of wood on the planet, has a distinctive pattern that looks like tiny, swirling eyes disrupting the smooth lines of grain. Birdseye maple isn't a variety or species of maple, but rather a phenomenon that occurs within several kinds of timber due to an unknown cause. Perhaps the valuable anomaly showcases wood's reaction to a fungal or viral infection, genetic mutation, bird pecking, climate change, soil conditions, growth history, or some other mysterious element.

Birdseye maple has a medium density and variable color. The outer rings of the tree create lumber that's usually a creamy, light amber color with darker birdseye patterns. The inner rings, called heartwood, might be deep amber or reddish with dark brown birdseye. Depending on the frequency of the birdseye swirls, each 1/8" to 3/8" wide (1/3-1 cm), the wood may be extremely valuable. Woodworkers prize the timber because it "turns" well on a lathe, meaning it can be shaped into decorative canes, chair legs, or handles. After it's finished, birdseye maple doesn't scratch easily.

Birdseye maple, occurring in Acer saccharum, only refers to the most common species of tree. Millers also find the deformation in red maple, white ash, Cuban mahogany, American beech, black walnut, and yellow birch. These trees that grow in the Great Lakes region of Canada and the United States yield the heftiest supply, along with some varieties in the Rocky Mountains. Although there are a few clues in a tree's bark that indicate the lumber might have birdseye, it is ususally necessary to fell the tree and cut it apart before you know for sure.

Refined specialty products, such as the dashboard of a Rolls Royce, are made of birdseye maple. Since it is such a rare and unusual lumber type, it's very expensive and in short supply. Its cost in boardfeet can be hundreds of times that of ordinary hardwood. Boxes and bowls for jewelry, thin veneer, humidors, canes, furniture inlays, handles, and guitars are made from the decorative wood. These beautiful collectors items seem to shimmer and swirl under the curling circles of birdseye.

Being able to cultivate birdseye, or bird's eye, in hardwood would be such a valuable commodity that researchers and arborists vigorously study the mysterious phenomena. So far, they have seemed to discount several theories, namely that pecking birds deform the wood grain and that an infecting fungus makes it twist. However, no one has demonstrated a complete understanding of the combination of climate, soil, tree variety, or insects that reliably produces the valuable maple.

BTW, if you want to measure the speed of sound through wood I can tell you as I have routinely done it. Or you could debate this subject forever, keep banging heads together or even train up some wood peckers with a keen ear etc...

[SteikBacon]

A question...

Along Fibre: Across Rings: Along Rings:
Acacia 15,467 4,840 4,436

The numbers across and along rings. I´ve learned that rings are much stiffer (because there is higher density of fibre) and therefore should transfer sound faster than across rings..... Do you mean that "along rings" is following the ring a distance round the tree across the fibre/growdirection? Like flatsawn.

And what is the numbers?? miles/h, meter/sec......

[DrStrangelove]

Corian parts

I make most of my nuts from corian. It's a lot more brittle than ebony too.

Roger that (profuse profanity redacted).
If you're careful, you can make a good guitar pick from it.

An old friend once collaborated on an all-Corian Telecaster.
Thirteen pounds with a hollowed body, it could cut off circulation in your leg.
I'm not fond of Tele's, but the neck and sound were exceptional.

Strings glide over Corian; there are no dead spots;
satin-surfaced Corian never sticks to you as polyester or urethane does.

Using standard Tele pickups, the Corian Tele had a long sustain
and a baritone twang that spoke with authority. By right-hand
technique alone, you could get it to cry as easily as bark or growl.

I wondered why and got into the whole matter of density, stiffness, and
viscoelasticity (something which explains why Graph Tech saddles are
intrinsicly midrange-scooped).

I've been pestering my buddy to make some Corian necks but
he understandably likes to spend more time with grandkids.

-drh

[corduroyew]

This is from WiseGEEK :

Birdseye maple, one of the rarest kinds of wood on the planet, has a distinctive pattern that looks like tiny, swirling eyes disrupting the smooth lines of grain. Birdseye maple isn't a variety or species of maple, but rather a phenomenon that occurs within several kinds of timber due to an unknown cause. Perhaps the valuable anomaly showcases wood's reaction to a fungal or viral infection, genetic mutation, bird pecking, climate change, soil conditions, growth history, or some other mysterious element.

Birdseye maple has a medium density and variable color. The outer rings of the tree create lumber that's usually a creamy, light amber color with darker birdseye patterns. The inner rings, called heartwood, might be deep amber or reddish with dark brown birdseye. Depending on the frequency of the birdseye swirls, each 1/8" to 3/8" wide (1/3-1 cm), the wood may be extremely valuable. Woodworkers prize the timber because it "turns" well on a lathe, meaning it can be shaped into decorative canes, chair legs, or handles. After it's finished, birdseye maple doesn't scratch easily.

Birdseye maple, occurring in Acer saccharum, only refers to the most common species of tree. Millers also find the deformation in red maple, white ash, Cuban mahogany, American beech, black walnut, and yellow birch. These trees that grow in the Great Lakes region of Canada and the United States yield the heftiest supply, along with some varieties in the Rocky Mountains. Although there are a few clues in a tree's bark that indicate the lumber might have birdseye, it is ususally necessary to fell the tree and cut it apart before you know for sure.

Refined specialty products, such as the dashboard of a Rolls Royce, are made of birdseye maple. Since it is such a rare and unusual lumber type, it's very expensive and in short supply. Its cost in boardfeet can be hundreds of times that of ordinary hardwood. Boxes and bowls for jewelry, thin veneer, humidors, canes, furniture inlays, handles, and guitars are made from the decorative wood. These beautiful collectors items seem to shimmer and swirl under the curling circles of birdseye.

Being able to cultivate birdseye, or bird's eye, in hardwood would be such a valuable commodity that researchers and arborists vigorously study the mysterious phenomena. So far, they have seemed to discount several theories, namely that pecking birds deform the wood grain and that an infecting fungus makes it twist. However, no one has demonstrated a complete understanding of the combination of climate, soil, tree variety, or insects that reliably produces the valuable maple.

BTW, if you want to measure the speed of sound through wood I can tell you as I have routinely done it. Or you could debate this subject forever, keep banging heads together or even train up some wood peckers with a keen ear etc...

This is what R. Bruce Hoadley says in Understanding Wood

Dimpling sometimes occurs as numerous small, conical indentation of the plane of the growth rig. In occasional trees of sugar maple, localized small swirls of grain direction produce bird's-eye figure, so called because each swirl looks like a tiny eye.

It sounds a lot less inpressive that way

[David Schwab]

This is from WiseGEEK :

Birdseye maple, occurring in Acer saccharum, only refers to the most common species of tree.

Sugar Maple. This is also known as hard maple, or rock maple. This is why I say two tops both made from sugar maple will sound the same. But some figured maple is soft maple, such as bigleaf or red maple. They will sound different.

Also it should be pointed out that figure in wood, such as curly maple, is not part of the grain, as the distortion is perpendicular to the grain direction.

Being able to cultivate birdseye, or bird's eye, in hardwood would be such a valuable commodity that researchers and arborists vigorously study the mysterious phenomena. So far, they have seemed to discount several theories, namely that pecking birds deform the wood grain and that an infecting fungus makes it twist. However, no one has demonstrated a complete understanding of the combination of climate, soil, tree variety, or insects that reliably produces the valuable maple.

Interestingly you will often find the birdseye figures mixed in with other figure, and on only parts of a board.

My main bass is like that. I picked that particular board at the lumber yard because part of the board, near the brown heart wood, had a nice figure. The rest of the board was rather plain.

Meanwhile we have two boards back at our shop that are about 6 feet long, 10 inches wide, and 4 inches thick that are nearly all birdseye! They weigh a ton too. Unfortunately they have twisted slightly, so we aren't sure we want to use it for something like necks. But they are about 20 years old, so they might be fine once we cut them up.

Here's part of the top on my bass showing the mixed flame and eye figure.