Cryogenic treatment of guitars warning

[DrStrangelove]

To be clear... I'm not a moderator. And I'd love to be ignored by anyone here that is so inclined.

The forum says that you are, but you aren't the only moderator here. Big Tee and David Schwab have shown a forebearance to you that I find ... excessively lenient in my vindictive opinion.

[big_teee]

I think this has all been over blown.
No name calling no one called anyone a SOB or nothing!
Can we please Leave DEFCON 1, and go back to maybe DEFCON 4 or 5?
We need less Drama tonight!
T

[J M Fahey]

The Immoderator has returned to duty.

Who gave you that job?

[Rick Turner]

Enzo, a couple of points.

1) Yes, there have been some major misunderstandings of the concepts behind how pickups work, and this is stuff that should have been learned and understood in "Pickups 101, an Introductory Course in Electric Lutherie". Words are expressions of concepts, and what we've seen is that concepts are being mis-applied. Please read my citation on how "force" and "power" are defined in a classic physics text...just as one example of what's come up here.

2) Love to see what would happen to an apprentice recording engineer who didn't know input from output on the patch bay...and try plugging your guitar into the output jack of a guitar amp. You'd be better off plugging a speaker into the input. They you'd have a microphone at least instead of a fried pickup.

3) As I said before, it is entirely possible to make pickups...even good ones...without knowing diddly squat about how they work. Just buy parts on-line, study the specs that are published, and be good with your hands. You can get by for years like that, and I suspect that many have. You can also buy kits to build amps and get brilliant results...and have no idea how they work. DIY doesn't mean Know It Yourself. But it would be nice if we published reality here so the next round of DIY pickup makers can know it as well as do it.

4) BTW, I'm working on a new product to be released next April...the "Sure You Can Sit In With My Band Tonight" guitar cable. It's got a nice Neutrik 1/4" plug on one end, and a 3 prong 110 Volt AC plug on the other end...

[The Dude]

Unsubscribed. You fellas enjoy tooting each other's horns.

"The Immoderator has returned to duty."

We're all quite impressed down here, I can tell you.

[DrStrangelove]

Who gave you that job?

Tboy did.

He did it when I first founded Pickup Makers Forum on Ampage, or rather encouraged the original forum hosted in Australia to move to Ampage, and then to here, on the music electronics forum. Few old PMF old timers are older than I. Jason and Wolfe are among them.

[Enzo]

Rick, in case you care at all, I was a physics major in college. Should I call the wall outlet my source of power or my source of energy? If someone tells me he plugged his amp into the power outlet, I bet i will still understand. People in the business may need to be precise, customers, well they do the best they can.

[DrStrangelove]

Unsubscribed.

Overdue, as well.

"The Immoderator has returned to duty."

We're all quite impressed down here, I can tell you.

Say good bye, Dude.

[g1]

Big Tee and David Schwab have shown a forebearance to you that I find ... excessively lenient in my vindictive opinion.

I'll assume you've read through the entire thread and have no issue with references to "a 2-by-4 smartly applied to the noggin or the nutsack".
This being the pickup side of the forum, I don't really post here, but do read through some of the stuff. It get's pretty nasty sometimes, this thread doesn't seem to particularly stand out. There are some members who have a lot of knowledge and with that, there is sometimes an accompanying abrasiveness. I usually let that slide as it can be par for the course with highly technical types (yes you 2x4 ).
But 2 here are at loggerheads who (from what I get from their postings) are not those type of guys. Actually they probably would agree about most things but somehow got on the wrong foot with each other. From what I can gather it was due to some perceived slights that were taken too personally when probably not intended that way.
I hope you two can sort it out as I have great respect for you both and enjoy all your posts.

[salvarsan]

Rick, in case you care at all, I was a physics major in college. Should I call the wall outlet my source of power or my source of energy? If someone tells me he plugged his amp into the power outlet, I bet i will still understand. People in the business may need to be precise, customers, well they do the best they can.

I care. Saluto, Enzo.

"Physics is Hard," to judge from recent experience.

[Rick Turner]

Enzo, a wall outlet is a source of power, just don't call it a "plug" like so many civilians do...believe me, I was in the building trades for about eight years, and wall outlets are often called "plugs". And an AC "source of energy" can be considered "power" in the classic sense; the terms are truly interchangeable. You're dealing with a force delivered in time...at 60 Hz in this country. But that's the first time that the term "a souce of energy" has been used in this kerfuffle, and so I fear a muddying of already opaque waters.

The main issue here has been "power" vs. "force". An AC "source of energy" is delivering "power"...force over time...back to square one here. A permanent magnet is exerting a force which gets harnessed as power because...yes! Of the vibrating string which has become magnetized by the permanent magnet.

There are all kinds of ways to prove this, if one is open minded enough to carry through the experiments. But closed minds don't like evidence contrary to their ways of thinking, and the easiest way to stay stuck in your rut is to refuse to either research outside references, texts, and papers or refuse to conduct proper tests.

Do I hear anyone wanting transformers to power loudspeakers? Oh, no, because it's the magnet that does it. Yeah, that's the power source...

Whew.

Goodnight Gracie.

[The Dude]

Overdue, as well.Say good bye, Dude.

Really? After everything that's gone on in this thread, you found that post worthy of deleting?

[salvarsan]

I'll assume you've read through the entire thread and have no issue with references to "a 2-by-4 smartly applied to the noggin or the nutsack".
This being the pickup side of the forum, I don't really post here, but do read through some of the stuff. It get's pretty nasty sometimes, this thread doesn't seem to particularly stand out. There are some members who have a lot of knowledge and with that, there is sometimes an accompanying abrasiveness. I usually let that slide as it can be par for the course with highly technical types (yes you 2x4 ).

Nope. Chuck H is an irresponsible contrarian and gets no free ride from me.

When I provide the science behind something and a wilfully ignorant yahoo persistently shouts "no, it's not! There's nothing there!" there's going to be blood in the water. Behavior which is not discouraged is by definition encouraged.

g-one, you seem a decent and otherwise rational sort (save that you have posted in PMF). Please recognize that we are attempting to advance the state of pickup making art by aggregating the science behind it. It is well past the time that anyone can casually dismiss cryo treatment as irrelevant to pickup parts when the science says so much the opposite.

I will admit to being oversensitive to science denialists, having had more than my share of them here and elsewhere, but have masochistically persevered despite them. As a result, pickup makers here routinely Q&A test using an inductance meter and a few even use an oscilloscopic USB pod to generate pickup frequency curves. Yes, I introduced BOTH of those things here. Hell, I even wrote the pickup winding estimator as a web app.

I'd like to think I've earned a little street cred.

[DrStrangelove]

Really? After everything that's gone on in this thread, you found that post worthy of deleting?

Heh!

(snicker, chortle)

What did you expect?!

Dude! You bent over while wearing a "kick me" sign.

Yes, I admit deleting you was petty, disproportionate ... and a guilty pleasure.

Undeleted, too, for your voicing a sense of proportion and fairness.

[Rick Turner]

Hey, while we're at it, does anyone here believe that dinosaurs and men walked the earth together 5,000 years ago?

How about climate change?

Perpetual motion?

Bigfoot?

Aliens crashing at Roswell?

Controlled and powered human flight?

Yeah, maybe we just get to vote on science and let it be opinion based. That's how America works. Good enough for pappy, good enough for me, good enough for my kids...that's why you should beat the shit out of them...spare the rod, spoil the chile'.

I would hope that most of us here are willing to learn and participate in moving the goal farther out than George Beauchamp, Lloyd Loar, Leo, Ted, and Seth put it. They did great work. We can keep it moving.