PAF Buffet

[mr fab]

You guys surprise me. In the grand scheme of things, stepping back and considering all possible guitar pickup designs, all of those pickups in the article are amazingly similar. They're not just humbuckers, but they have the same size bobbins and use the same design with a single magnet (same size) between the poles of the two bobbins, a metal baseplate below the magnet. *Most* of them have solid slug poles in one bobbin and adjustable 5-40 cheese head screws as the poles in the other bobbin... Should I go on?

I think you'd better peruse this forum.....different magnets and magnet suppliers, wire gauge, coating on the wire, baseplates, screws & slugs, winding pattern, TPL, tension, winding speed, covers.... all these factors affect the sound the pickup makes, some to larger, some to lesser degree.....

for any batch of wire, bobbins, slugs etc... there are endless permutations which ultimately could result in completely different sounding pickups

and then there is the type of wire, wiring scheme, pots and capacitors which also affect the sound.... not to mention, the inherent acoustic properties of the individual guitar itself

[Jammin'John]

Sorry,Don't Like Them

I don't like humbuckers.
I think they are WAY overrated.

JJ

[big_teee]

Right, I doubt they will ever catch on!
Nothing like a good humming Single Coil!
T

[Jammin'John]

Right, I doubt they will ever catch on!
Nothing like a good humming Single Coil!
T

Agreed. +1

JJ

[big_teee]

I was kidding about the SCs, I use humbuckers in most everything.
Humbuckers, Sidewinders, Multi-Coils, Split coils, etc.
I don't like Hum!
T

[Jammin'John]

Don't Like Them

I was kidding about the SCs, I use humbuckers in most everything.
Humbuckers, Sidewinders, Split coils, etc.
T

I actually don't like humbuckers.
I prefer P90's.
Everyone's different. I don't like the gibson scale length either.
It's not a crime.

JJ

[mr fab]

I consider guitars as the tools of the trade for a musician.... and his tool kit should have at least 5 guitars....a les paul, 335, strat, tele and a gretsch and (also possibly a LP jr)

then you need a fender amp , vox, and a marshall

you will have all bases covered then

there is no better or worse, they are different, and like tools have applications for various jobs....

[soundmasterg]

I look at guitars and amps as tools too. I use stuff with humbuckers, single coils of various types (P90's, strats, teles, Ricenbackers, and lots of different amps including some of my own designs. I don't really like full size Gibson style humbuckers unless they have the PAF qualities of clarity and no flub on the low notes....the generic supposed PAF clones like many Duncan models and what not don't really capture that essence that I need with a humbucker and if they don't have that, then I will use single coils. I like Gretsch humbuckers like the Filtertron a lot though, and I have some really nice Ric humbuckers that work great for heavier stuff too. All that said, people do tend to get attached to their gear, so while they may be tools, I have some favorites that I couldn't do without.

Greg

[mr fab]

agreed greg, we get attached to our guitars and amps

I am also attached to certain tools I have...been using them for years and would not use anything else

[Antigua]

I look at guitars and amps as tools too. I use stuff with humbuckers, single coils of various types (P90's, strats, teles, Ricenbackers, and lots of different amps including some of my own designs. I don't really like full size Gibson style humbuckers unless they have the PAF qualities of clarity and no flub on the low notes....the generic supposed PAF clones like many Duncan models and what not don't really capture that essence that I need with a humbucker and if they don't have that, then I will use single coils. I like Gretsch humbuckers like the Filtertron a lot though, and I have some really nice Ric humbuckers that work great for heavier stuff too. All that said, people do tend to get attached to their gear, so while they may be tools, I have some favorites that I couldn't do without.

Greg

The interesting thing is that there are very hot Strat single coils and stacks that can yield 10k+ humbucker tones, but high-gain players mostly seem interested in the PAF form factor. I wonder if the PAF layout is better for delivering pinch harmonics, or if it's just that pickups like the Super Distortion or the JB were the first on the scene, and now they mostly associate that style of pickup with high gain, as a matter of tradition or expectation.

[soundmasterg]

I would say that the narrow form factor of the Strat pickup contributes to a thinner sound than a full size humbucker, no matter what you do with it. My Ric humbuckers are about 12.5k, and use a samarium cobalt magnet and 44 gauge wire, but they are still brighter than a full size bucker to a certain extent, due to the more narrow form factor. Typically the crowd that wants those higher gain tones tends to also like the look of guitars with full size buckers rather than a Strat, which gets a wimpy look by that crowd often times. Its hard to say why they choose one design over another.

Greg

[big_teee]

Bobbin height, magnet type, and bobbin form factor, all have to do with brightness.
PAF has .25" bobbin height with Alnico magnets.
Strat blades have .410" height between the flats, and use ceramic magnets.
There are followers of both.
Around here with strats, SCs in neck and middle, and a blade in the bridge.
Also the strat blades usually aren't as loud as a full sized humbucker.
The mini blades don't over power the neck and middle SCs as much, making a good match.
T

[Jim Shine]

Blooming is for flowers and onions..

[Jammin'John]

Blooming is for flowers and onions..

JJ

[RedHouse]

So what happened to Possum's post? forum glitch?, I was just reading it and poof! gone!. I know it was here as I got the email notification:

Possum has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - PAF Buffet - in the Pickup Makers forum of Music Electronics Forum.

This thread is located at:
PAF Buffet

Here is the message that has just been posted:
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The Vintage Guitar article was just a soft piece of writing meant to sell magazines, thats all. Little substance. I supplied them with some very rare Seth Lover material thats never been published in the US before, not sure they used any of it, I was so pissed off, like Wolfe, that I threw it away immediately after I read it. I have approached them in the past; this time I also sent them a fair amount of technical information describing the difficulties of reproducing a vintage product made with period materials, along with the Seth article, but anything technical goes right over their heads, they glaze over and don't seem to want to understand anything very complex. They basically don't know what a PAF is, except that its an "old humbucker." Can't say I blame them, its not their forte and they consistently for years and years have shown that pickups aren't on their radar as far as historical or technical understanding goes. Its a coffee table magazine. After I gave them alot of information and paid for the ad, they asked me to write a 30 word description of my work and to provide a photograph of my product. They completely butchered the 30 words down to "Stephens Design makes 10 models." That was pretty much all they used, they took my glitzy photo and some hack photoshop guy chopped it out of the background and managed to make it look really bad.

The only decent writing anyone has ever done on the PAF subject, I was lucky enough to have been reviewed in, was by Dave Hunter, the guy knows how to WRITE, is technically educated, builds his own amps, has written a ton of great guitar related books, and owns real PAF's and plays them, and now owns my work. The amazing thing was that article appeared in Guitar Player Magazine, probably the last place you'd expect to see an in-depth piece of work on these historic pickups. Hunter was highly interested in the technical stuff and I loaded him up with as much of my work as I could publicly share, and is a very intelligent no BS, friendly guy, who wrote a fair review without bashing anyone, and a validation of what my work is, as the HD's were the top pick. But overall you're never going to find much valid published information on PAF's, I was also honored to write and article for Burst Believers II, about the big misunderstandings of that subject. In general, publications have no interest in the nitty gritty engineering details or study of vintage materials technologies, so much of whats been written about them is pretty wacko. What I personally learned from vintage PAF's explains why ALL vintage pickups sounded the way they do and why none of them can 100% be reproduced.
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Weird, it disappeared no trace.