bass response and coil mismatch....

[Possum]

I have a customer who loves the bucker set I did but at full volume on the guitar the bass is too muddy for him and wonders if more coil mismatch would get more bass clarity. Good question, maybe a perfect coil match might be a better idea?

[NightWinder]

Is it symetrical already? OOPs, Nope. You have to clip it a little more. Things like this are good to know ahead of time to also fight the High end that comes with the higher offsets. You can comp for it in the turn count.

[kevinT]

Is it the bridge or neck pickup?

Do the pickups have covers?

Did your customer try adjusting pickup height from strings to find the "sweet spot"? What about making adjustments to his amp settings?....these would be my first two recommendations and from what i've found can make a big difference.


need a bit more info dave for my two cents.

[Possum]

...

yes they have covers, coil offset is about .2-.3K
So, Nitewinder you're saying more coil offset we're getting into more single coil kind of tones with more treble and clearer bass? Makes sense if so.

So how does a perfect match set of coils affect treble and bass and mids?

[JGundry]

I have a chambered Les Paul that is great to play but had a problem with a muddy low end. I machine wound a set of pickups with a .7k offset in favor of the slug coil for both bridge and neck pickups. This fixed the problem. It does have a much more single coil sound to it but for this guitar it works. All of my favorite vintage Gibson and for that matter humbuckers by other makers that I have liked have had the coil offset in favor of the slug coil. I personally think this if is the best approach for both neck and bridge pickups. Just pick a note over each coil and see how the tone differs. The vibrations coming from the screw coil an the bridge are harsher and decay quickly. The notes over the slug coil are more pleasing and ring longer. There is less difference in the neck position but by the same logic you will get less of a rubbery response from the string the further from the neck you are so keeping the slug coil hotter would only help with clarity in the neck position.

If the screw coil is hotter I think I would maybe try the same offset or a bit more of an offset with the slug hotter.

[NightWinder]

yes they have covers, coil offset is about .2-.3K
So, Nitewinder you're saying more coil offset we're getting into more single coil kind of tones with more treble and clearer bass? Makes sense if so.

So how does a perfect match set of coils affect treble and bass and mids?

A Perfect set would definately give more base and treble with covers. The mids are easily manipulated in the wind, as I refrained from a previous post regarding the "scooped Mids" topic as I have a pickup that is totally that. What ever you have up your sleeve, I'd think the model is of vintage or vintage hot realms..... Remember when I questioned the "adding mids" : )......
The coils you sent me were not loose at all in the lows? And that was with an A2. If its the neck position in question, you may be getting too much power from the magnet too, just a thought. More offset to the screw will definately give a more "crisp" tone, and tighten up the base too. As to which, I'd totally disagree with Jon on some stuff- Mainly the neck theory.
Is this a vintage type of prototype?

[madialex]

This is a great thread, thanks...
I too lately have been getting a sroingy sounding bottom, even on bridge hum's. Not muddy per se but too sproingy if thats even a word. I usually go with a .3 to .5 offset favoring the slug coil too. HA I even tried a 1.0 offset, I wont even go there though...

On another note there is this, I may need to ask in a new thread.
Last weekend a buddy used my guitar to play a gig, at practice it sounded great to both of us. At the gig after the first set, everyone in the band said it was too hot of a pickup. It was about 8.3K???? He has a Gibson V that i'm sure has the 500T's in and they are supposed to be hot but mine blazed the finish off, WHY???? Am I scattering too much, not enough, to tight with the wind?? I'm baffled.

[Possum]

sheesh....

everyone's opinion here is different, thats not good :-) Its Platinum set one in the videos, he's using it in a 335 and complains its too bassy with the volume all the way up on the guitar, one of those finicky guys who probably can't play worth a darn. Main compaint is the neck, the wire is a little thicker so probably need to back off the winds, at 8.2 bridge I think and 7.6 neck, probably need to come down some. I like hotter screws on neck, I'll try reversing that, should help. I think mostly I have too many winds.

equal wound coils give more defined treble and bass? that doesn't seem right, you sure you wrote that correctly? With cover on?

Adding mids, yeah you can do that by more scatter hand or machined. I used A4 neck and A3 bridge, maybe he'd like A2 in the neck better and maybe in bridge as well.

[Rosewood]

To me favoring the screw coil has the best chance for clarity because of being exposed and using the slug coil for humbucking only, with cover on that is. Favoring either coil I guess is fine but it seems to me narrowing the "window" is a good path to clarity.

[kevinT]

Offset= 200 more turns on screw coil. Add more tension to both coils. Might even think about using an A5 in neck degaussed a bit.

ooopps...not clear here....Dave, I think a 7.6 is a nice output level generally for a spec PAF neck pickup. Take 200 turns off the slug coil and add it to the screw side...is what I meant....not to add more output

just my 2 cents.

[NightWinder]

everyone's opinion here is different, thats not good :-) Its Platinum set one in the videos, he's using it in a 335 and complains its too bassy with the volume all the way up on the guitar, one of those finicky guys who probably can't play worth a darn. Main compaint is the neck, the wire is a little thicker so probably need to back off the winds, at 8.2 bridge I think and 7.6 neck, probably need to come down some. I like hotter screws on neck, I'll try reversing that, should help. I think mostly I have too many winds.

equal wound coils give more defined treble and bass? that doesn't seem right, you sure you wrote that correctly? With cover on?

Adding mids, yeah you can do that by more scatter hand or machined. I used A4 neck and A3 bridge, maybe he'd like A2 in the neck better and maybe in bridge as well.

equal wound coils give more defined treble and bass? that doesn't seem right, you sure you wrote that correctly? With cover on?

I never said that???? Yes, It will give more bass and treble and power for that matter. You wanted a tighter lowend. I'd say back that pup off a bit on the slug coil Dave. Regarding Jon's theory as well, Totally forgot you both machine wind, but I would still have the screw coil hotter. You can also change your turn count per layer? I've heard some killer paf styles that were ever so clipped that had great defined bass too.

[JGundry]

I do think there is another factor that comes into play regarding which coil to make hotter. The screw coil inherently has a bit less output because the screws direct some of the magnetism out the bottom of the pickup. So you need less of an offset to get a clearer sound from the pickup if you make the slug coil hotter. I do think that the slug coil, screw coil difference is less of an issue with the neck pickup. Knocking the gauss down a bit even with A2 will help with low end clarity as well. You could also try a thinner magnet.

[David Schwab]

Just pick a note over each coil and see how the tone differs. The vibrations coming from the screw coil an the bridge are harsher and decay quickly. The notes over the slug coil are more pleasing and ring longer.

You are picking on two different points on the string... closer to the bridge will be thinner sounding. That has nothing to do with the pickup, but the slug coil is the hotter of the two. I clip my screws off flush with the back of the base plate.

Dave, I bet the guy just needs to turn the bass down on his amp a bit! I'd go with less winds like you said.

[Zhangliqun]

You are picking on two different points on the string... closer to the bridge will be thinner sounding. That has nothing to do with the pickup, but the slug coil is the hotter of the two.

It has everything to do with the pickup, because the position of the slug coil is such that it picks up up a thicker tone than the screw coil -- for the very reason you say: more lows as you move toward the middle of the string and more highs as you move toward either of the two ends. (Though yes, slug coils are a bit hotter because of less vertical dissipation of the magnetic field.)

Calibrate your coils to take advantage of the different frequency contours of the part of the string each coil sits under. I prefer to make the screw coil on the neck hotter because I think that is the sweetest node. I wind the slug coil hotter on the bridge because it gets more mids due to its position relative to the string. The wonderful irony is that it also adds a bit more single coil sparkle on top due to a bit less cancellation of the really high freqs -- and without a significant increase in hum.

[Rosewood]

What happen to this thread?