MLP....Just in case

[kevinT]

Yeah.. but what is the PAF sound? It's a myth. There is no "PAF sound"... there's a bunch of pickups with PAF labels, and they sounded somewhat different from each other. Some where exceptional, and some were so-so.

All you can do is pick ONE PAF tone, and try and emulate it.

I think many of the winders here into that stuff know what they are talking about and have gotten a good composite of that early humbucker tone.

I remember being in a band back in the 70's, and the guitarist had a 50's LP, that was originally a gold top with P-90's, that someone had refinished brown, and converted to humbuckers before he got it. It had early patent label pickups, which I believe became available after market in the early 60's. How different were those from the same pickups with PAF labels? He replaced them with DiMarzio PAF's, which he felt sounded better. So it's all relative.

That's my option, and I don't make PAF pickups, so I'm totally unbiased.

Amen Brother Dave!!! You hit the nail on the head in my book.

[PoorMan]

I used to think the same, but Possum mentioned a signature PAF "character" and I am inclined to agree with him.

[NightWinder]

Holy Snap!! Fisting frenzy

That place just went berzerkoos,LOL. Thats one of the most ingorant threads I've ever had the pleasure of reading- Just to note: Scanning through, there was no direct comments made to anyone other that Dave regarding him sharing great information and research regarding metals and tone which can be proven if you have the right equipment and know how to use it. I know this first hand and have been in knee deep shit in regards to manifacturing the parts I want....How could you let your brother get torched for something you strongly believe in also and is blantantly disrespected and discredited because he shared his knowledge???? That shits fucked up!! Lets get further into it.....Look who spoke up in regards to thinking they know something?? One's not even a winder at all- Just a 2 faced pussy as he would call us!! What gives this afterbirth the thought of life to speak and say anything in regards to the thread- Judging by his picture- He's be fisted more than once guys....It won't be the last he takes up the canal of "knowledge".
Let's put more salt in the wound......MLP directly feeds off of anything related to Les Paul- Its afterbirth on google!! They are feeding off of the Les Paul name?//STEALING OFF THERE NAME IN THE SAME CLASSIFICATION.....MAYBE GIBSON HAS SOME LEGAL TECHNICALITYS AND KNOWLEDGE OF THIS AND IS ALREADY IN PURSUIT TO DISASSOCIATE THEM WITH THE OFFICAL NAME OF "LES PAUL". I bet they got a case.....

[DrStrangelove]

Immoderation

If you wondered why the moderator doesn't step in like a hairy thundering god (or some similarly juvenile conception) and threaten to ban someone for the rest of their lives ... it doesn't work that way.

In my opinion, the more focussed a forum is, the better it is at self-moderation ... or that's what I tell myself to justify my lazy style of moderation. We are lucky to be as narrowly focussed as we are.

I could dump all threads on this forum into the junk pile for as long as T-boy would tolerate it (~1 week, I estimate) but it would only alienate folks and make them start a forum some place else.

In the past, a private message to people has been enough to cool things off.

There is nothing we can do about lurkers who trash this forum elsewhere.

If you don't like what MLP denizens write, ignore them.

-hizSelf

[NightWinder]

Speaks..

Shows livelyhood and character....This thread is perfectly normal and in a great state....Those that are heavy handed however feel punished in the cover-up?? We are a bunch of civilized catz dealing with it, and nothing more- Just honest in the approach- Thats self explanitory though...

[EtLa]

[David Schwab]

I used to think the same, but Possum mentioned a signature PAF "character" and I am inclined to agree with him.

I agree with anything Dave says.. he gets irate if you don't!

Well that's what I meant when I said the winders here know what they are doing... Dave researched the metal aspect, and then you have Jon researching the machine winding aspect. I haven't heard everyone's pickups, but Dave's sure do sound old timey and all.

And others have done their own thing, and I'm sure all achieve a pretty uniform sample of an early Gibson humbucker tone.

But I'd bet most of the people over at MLP don't know what that tone is. I'm not even sure I know what that tone is!

[kevinT]

I used to think the same, but Possum mentioned a signature PAF "character" and I am inclined to agree with him.

Possum's PAF tone is not only good but damn good!!! It is one of the few that I really like. But I still have to disagree that there is one signature PAF tone....If there is, who is going to be lucky dog that is going to tell Lollar, Fralin, Duncan, Spence, Holmes, Wolfe, Jim W., Gundry and all the rest....that they need to throw in the towel because Dave cracked the PAF mystery

I am going to stand by what i said in the other forum ....even the begining of Dave's video is the proof of the variety of PAF tones that are possible....no one can deny that

[NightWinder]

???

Dave cracked no mystery....All those guys you named are using different things and meterials as well.. No mystery, just hard earned cash to get to the bottom of things we all enjoy . We all have our own interpetations of what we think is genuine or as close as it can get. Here's the mystery: Take your $$$ and have a genuine slug zapped and read the results. Then try to commision a company to make you, say 10,000- Only to have them tell you....He bud, fuck off!! You need to order 100,000, or we are not running it. Oh, not to mention hey, all we can get it this material and if yu don't like it thats the way it is...unless you supply the material. Thats the mystery!! Your no fool yourself, you know this. But yet, the guy is flamed like a martyr for speaking up??? Fuck that man....

[twinrider1]

That place just went berzerkoos,LOL. Thats one of the most ingorant threads I've ever had the pleasure of reading- Just to note: Scanning through, there was no direct comments made to anyone other that Dave regarding him sharing great information and research regarding metals and tone which can be proven if you have the right equipment and know how to use it. I know this first hand and have been in knee deep shit in regards to manifacturing the parts I want....How could you let your brother get torched for something you strongly believe in also and is blantantly disrespected and discredited because he shared his knowledge???? That shits fucked up!! Lets get further into it.....Look who spoke up in regards to thinking they know something?? One's not even a winder at all- Just a 2 faced pussy as he would call us!! What gives this afterbirth the thought of life to speak and say anything in regards to the thread- Judging by his picture- He's be fisted more than once guys....It won't be the last he takes up the canal of "knowledge".
Let's put more salt in the wound......MLP directly feeds off of anything related to Les Paul- Its afterbirth on google!! They are feeding off of the Les Paul name?//STEALING OFF THERE NAME IN THE SAME CLASSIFICATION.....MAYBE GIBSON HAS SOME LEGAL TECHNICALITYS AND KNOWLEDGE OF THIS AND IS ALREADY IN PURSUIT TO DISASSOCIATE THEM WITH THE OFFICAL NAME OF "LES PAUL". I bet they got a case.....

emphasis added.

Wow. Is this what you mean when you say you're a civilized cat?

[NightWinder]

Trolls Now-

emphasis added.

Wow. Is this what you mean when you say you're a civilized cat?

Troll Alert!!
Obviously you don't know when to keep your mouth shut...Here's a clue: When you have another outbreak...its a clear signal you should have kept your hole shut......

[Possum]

PAF tone...

Kevin and David: I still don't think you are understanding what I am saying. In the song clips I used in my videos, yes the tones are all different, but they ALL have a tone that to ME is immediately identifiable as authentic PAF tone. It is a tone that is like no other, regardless of what flavor it is, how much wire is on it or what magnets were used, it still sounds like a PAF and I can tell the difference. No other pickup has matched that sound. When you play a real one you immediately know that, hey this is not like anything else. Its not a tone you can get throwing some StewMac stuff together in any combination of winds or magnets etc. just not possible. the big reason I've been obsessed with that tone is because I never liked humbuckers at all. The only ones I ever liked were in a '63-64 SG I had that sounded marvelous. I now know its because it had early patent sticker pickups in it which are basically the same metals and some the same magnet wire. I never found that tone again in anything else I tried and never bought a bucker guitar til I started making pickups because I wanted to nail Chris Cain's tone in his 335, which I quickly realized are a real PAF set Joe Pass or someone of that ilk gave to him, Chris told me himself; the guitar itself is an 80s reissued 335. So you can say pick a PAF tone and try to emulate it, what I'm saying is figure out what is making the core/basic characteristics of TRUE PAF magic, then once you got that nailed you can do every other version of that tone thats ever been recorded. I'm still on this quest every day, and having been lucky to get two examples of these pickups I am learning more every day. There IS a basic identifiable PAF tone, and to me it is THE tone and singly identifiable as one thing that everything else doesn't share. Unfortunately describing tone in words is just about pointless, I've tried and tried to describe that tone verbally and it just doesn't work, maybe because my mouth doesn't work very well, duh.....

There is one historic example of PAF tone thats almost unidentifiable and thats Clapton on the Beano album. I'm reading his autobiography and he says he turned the bass on his amp all the way up and played on the bridge pickup. He doesn't mention he also use a treble booster to get added gain, then you also notice in the recordings there's very little treble at all, so he either had it turned way back on the guitar or the amp. The results of all that just about completely masked being able to tell it was a PAF. Its not one of my favorite classic tones what he did on that album. If you use too much gain or pedals etc. its pretty easy to completely obliterate whats special about those pickups, that one example earlier of that guy on YouTube playing a '58LP through a Trainwreck with alot of gain just wrecked the tone. On the other hand Gary Moore knew how to get decent gain and keep a great PAF tone going on Peter Green's guitar, so guess it can be done :-) OK, I know I'm obsessed, I'll shut up now.....

[BCRGreg]

Hey, Nightwinder. You talking about me?

Look who spoke up in regards to thinking they know something?? One's not even a winder at all- Just a 2 faced pussy as he would call us!! What gives this afterbirth the thought of life to speak and say anything in regards to the thread- Judging by his picture- He's be fisted more than once guys....It won't be the last he takes up the canal of "knowledge".

If so, please tell everyone everything you know about my experience winding pickups, of my experience with PAFs in general, for that matter.

Fisting?

Afterbirth?

How very articulate and mature of you.

If you are NOT talking about me, accept my apologies.

[HJM]

Yeah.. but what is the PAF sound? It's a myth. There is no "PAF sound"... there's a bunch of pickups with PAF labels, and they sounded somewhat different from each other. Some where exceptional, and some were so-so.

Fair comment - but the good ones tend to have a similar personality, kind of like one Les Paul sounds in the same camp as another Les Paul in terms of it's sonic signature. I guess that's what I mean. Kind of...

[kevinT]

Dave cracked no mystery....All those guys you named are using different things and meterials as well.. No mystery, just hard earned cash to get to the bottom of things we all enjoy . We all have our own interpetations of what we think is genuine or as close as it can get..

+1 ...That is what I'm saying....

Here's the mystery: Take your $$$ and have a genuine slug zapped and read the results. Then try to commision a company to make you, say 10,000- Only to have them tell you....He bud, fuck off!! You need to order 100,000, or we are not running it. Oh, not to mention hey, all we can get it this material and if yu don't like it thats the way it is...unless you supply the material. Thats the mystery!! Your no fool yourself, you know this. But yet, the guy is flamed like a martyr for speaking up??? Fuck that man....

Sorry to hear that wade. I was looking forward to getting some.