MLP....Just in case

[Spence]

Last week the Leesona 102 was the ultimate PAF winder and this week it isn't.

Further back Duncan's machines were the dog's bollocks before you got one but now they are just a side show.

Then of course the Leesona was an antiquated pile of shite when you were using your wood lathe.

That was until you got the leesona.
Then we were expected to marvel at the Leesona's tensioning system until you couldn't make it work.

You're just a joke and for anyone here wondering why you don't post on MLP forum anymore; it's because you were BANNED !

[JGundry]

You're just a joke and for anyone here wondering why you don't post on MLP forum anymore; it's because you were BANNED !

Am I banned? Thank God! I had no idea though, honestly. I'm glad your keeping up to date on my status there for me. But if I am banned I wear it as a badge of honor. I made my last post there and left after Flick went ape shit over some phantom offense a long time ago.

MLP is the perfect place for you Spence. Your a bitter, unhappy and unpleasant person. You will fit right in.

Just so you know all of my winders all the ultimate. My Leesona 102, my vintage, Gibson made, one of a kind PAF winder and my ingenious computer controlled winder. I may get banned here for my modesty if I don't watch out.

Pics two of my ultimate winding machines. By the way these are the machines that actually wound PAF's. The filthy machine was actually sitting in the old Gibson plant when this photo was taken by me.

[greenfingers]

I guess that my idea of the M.E.F (music electronics forum) humbucker aint going to challenge the P.A.F any time soon!... Sorry KevinT put your money away, I wonder what it would of sounded like?

[Spence]

Am I banned? Thank God! I had no idea though, honestly. I'm glad your keeping up to date on my status there for me. But if I am banned I wear it as a badge of honor. I made my last post there and left after Flick went ape shit over some phantom offense a long time ago.

MLP is the perfect place for you Spence. Your a bitter, unhappy and unpleasant person. You will fit right in.

Just so you know all of my winders all the ultimate. My Leesona 102, my vintage, Gibson made, one of a kind PAF winder and my ingenious computer controlled winder. I may get banned here for my modesty if I don't watch out.

Pics two of my ultimate winding machines. By the way these are the machines that actually wound PAF's. The filthy machine was actually sitting in the old Gibson plant when this photo was taken by me.

You seem to think you have an edge on everyone including Seymour Duncan.
You haven't. It's fantasy and I'm going to keep picking away at you until you stop being an obnoxiuous irritant to people who really do make pickups.

Call me all the names you like Jon. I'll still be there to challenge you at every turn.

By the way Jon, you know full well you were banned from the MLP forum.

They told you why too.

[Sam Lee Guy]

Pics two of my ultimate winding machines. By the way these are the machines that actually wound PAF's.

Velly solly. Didn't know you got your Leesona from Gibson too. Now you just need to invest in correct bobbins, baseplates, covers and other metal parts to be in same position as Seymour.

[JGundry]

You seem to think you have an edge on everyone including Seymour Duncan.
You haven't. It's fantasy and I'm going to keep picking away at you until you stop being an obnoxiuous irritant to people who really do make pickups.

Call me all the names you like Jon. I'll still be there to challenge you at every turn.

By the way Jon, you know full well you were banned from the MLP forum.

They told you why too.

Spence your virtue and wisdom is beyond reproach. That is clear. It is like your my own personal troll. It's cute, sort of like the girls that used to kick me during recess in first grade to let me know they liked me. Or are you the drunk uncle that everyone ignores at family gatherings. I can't decide.

But I can see that you don't have enough joy in your life. And I want you to be happy. So I hope this helps. I know know nothing and you are always right. Happy now.

By the way really have no idea about MLP being banned or whatever. I left and stayed away for a long time. Never got an email and never checked my PM's. But again I want you to be happy so I hope this helps. You are the most honest person here and I am incapable of telling the truth. Happy now.

[Norcal_GIT_r]

When you make the ultimate pickup let us know.................................................... ........................................................ ........................................................

[kevinT]

Spence your virtue and wisdom is beyond reproach. That is clear. It is like your my own personal troll. It's cute, sort of like the girls that used to kick me during recess in first grade to let me know they liked me. Or are you the drunk uncle that everyone ignores at family gatherings. I can't decide.

But I can see that you don't have enough joy in your life. And I want you to be happy. So I hope this helps. I know know nothing and you are always right. Happy now.

By the way really have no idea about MLP being banned or whatever. I left and stayed away for a long time. Never got an email and never checked my PM's. But again I want you to be happy so I hope this helps. You are the most honest person here and I am incapable of telling the truth. Happy now.

I think there is a Love/Hate relationship going on here. They both love the PAF and the hate seeing the other love it more. Nothing wrong with the passion for great tone.

All I have to say is Jon avoid wearing any wool around Spence and Spence keep your electric shears away from Jon because he'll turn it into a winder.

[JGundry]

Velly solly. Didn't know you got your Leesona from Gibson too. Now you just need to invest in correct bobbins, baseplates, covers and other metal parts to be in same position as Seymour.

Sam you still don't get it. The dirty machine is one of a kind. It was used for PAF's and Seymour does not have a machine like it. But I have it. I'm sure Seymour sleeps very well at night but on the PAF coil winding front I have an edge.

[JGundry]

I think there is a Love/Hate relationship going on here. They both love the PAF and the hate seeing the other love it more. Nothing wrong with the passion for great tone.

All I have to say is Jon avoid wearing any wool around Spence and Spence keep your electric shears away from Jon because he'll turn it into a winder.

I'm afraid Spence takes a much more negative view of this that you are making out. I wish you were right but I'm afraid your not. I have PM'ed him, it was no use. Spence is my personal troll on other forums. It's a shame because he seems to make nice stuff. But the kind of negativity and trolling that he displays now and then I'm sure turns people off and makes him look like a creep. Not trying to slam him here but it's true. I stopped caring a long time ago. That kind of internet stalking is just strange and people see it for what it is right away. At places like MLP the pile-oners take those negative posts as a cue to join in. And Kevin I'm sure you know what I'm talking about when it comes to pile-oners and MLP. But on a well run forum it doesn't fly.

[Stan H]

My God...it's turning into the Hatfields and McCoys around here anymore!

[Spence]

When you make the ultimate pickup let us know.................................................... ........................................................ ........................................................

That's all I've been asking too. The guy just talks a lot and slags a lot of other people off. Good, honest, harworking people who have been making great pickups for years. It's really strange. Who in God's name is going to take this guy seriously?
I'm very open to other people's wisdom but he just keeps changing his tune every half hour.
Any one of us here could copy that machine, even down to the heart-shaped cam he's blacked out. I had the very motor ( winding part of the contraption ) which came out of a slot machine. Any motor will do. It just doesn't matter one iota what motor or traverse mechanism you use. Just make a sodding pickup and then talk about how good it is. Otherwise you're just a museum curator.

So yeah let us know.....

[Dave Kerr]

But the kind of negativity and trolling that he displays now and then I'm sure turns people off and makes him look like a creep.

I've got to disagree with you here. You present your case with a very high degree of certitude that the antique machines you're restoring will recreate the perfect PAF wind. Spence continually calls you on some of the underlying details, often related to processes that we can only infer Gibson employed back in the day (tensioning, etc).

As one of the newcomers here pointed out, you claim that it's all about the winder, while for Possum it's metallurgy. WB, of course, says it's all in the wire. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm of a mind that it all matters to some extent, and that how much weight should be assigned to each is really the question.

I'd expect that if you were to throttle back your claims a bit, Spence's replies would be scaled back as well.

[kevinT]

I know dave and spence have already heard this from me on the MLP. I pasted what i said below. I realized i left out the magnet on the list and it's characteristics.

I understand everyone's point and I think everyone can learn from another's point of view. I also think everyone is right and no one method or philosophy is wrong. Folks are taking thier own approach...to get their own PAF thang going on (no approach is wrong if you get to the tone that you like). I am not an expert on the PAF at this point, but i'm getting there... (it is a never ending ongoing process of learning about them).... But i'm using my research and my hands-on experience thus far, and using what i think is a common sense approach to developing my paf-style pickups. I don't think any one of us is going to have each piece of the puzzle solved...it would be difficult. I'm not saying it isn't possible....with a lot of time, energy and money. This is my opinion... and i won't say anything more about it after this because my foot is sore from kicking a lot of dead horses lately.....this is what i said:

"...However, IMO the only way to make a true replica of a PAF is to:

1. Use the same exact materials that Gibson had available. This means having the same exact alloys of all the metals that were used for the screw polepieces, slugs, keepers, baseplate, bobbin mounting screws and covers. Furthermore, using buteyrate bobbins which were made with the exact formualation of ingredients
2. Follow the same SOPs (standard operating procedures) that they used in making the PAF
3. Use the same type of equipment that Gibson used meaning the Leesona 102....and have it set up as they did.
4. Using the same magnet wire.

Leaving out any one of the above, to me, would void the status of a true replica. And unless you're able to follow the criteria above with exacting standards...then the best that anyone can really do is to make a PAF-style pickup or make a pickup in the "manner of" a PAF. And after all that, then you have to ask yourself, is the PAF tone there?

Hell, Gibson can't even make an exact replica...and they have all the records and instiutional knowledge of how it was done and what was used and they have the financial resources to make it happen. And as you know, they attempted it and you know how that turned out, the PAFs just weren't the same...i am speaking about Tim Shaw.

I feel that most winders are getting a good PAF tone with the parts that are available to us. I have my keepers custom milled. I have and have tested about 10 fillisters of different material, shapes and sizes, and plating as well as 3 slugs of different alloys and from different sources. I am quite pleased and very satisfied with the tone that I have developed for my PAF-style pickups. And I've gotten all positive feedback from them.

When I hear that someone has "nailed" the PAF tone", I have to laugh because it is just hype. There are many PAF tones and no one can declare that they have "the one". It's not possible. You have arrived at the PAF tone that you like..., I have arrived at the PAF tone that I like and customers will determine whether it is the PAF tone that they like.

I don't think anyone is really dissing anyone here. We're just having a logical debate among pro winders. There is nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree."

[kevinT]

My God...it's turning into the Hatfields and McCoys around here anymore!

Stan...keep those shotguns locked up would ya...