MLP....Just in case

[Stan H]

Stan...keep those shotguns locked up would ya...

I only pull 'em out when they're needed.

[JGundry]

That's all I've been asking too. The guy just talks a lot and slags a lot of other people off. Good, honest, harworking people who have been making great pickups for years. It's really strange. Who in God's name is going to take this guy seriously?
I'm very open to other people's wisdom but he just keeps changing his tune every half hour.
Any one of us here could copy that machine, even down to the heart-shaped cam he's blacked out. I had the very motor ( winding part of the contraption ) which came out of a slot machine. Any motor will do. It just doesn't matter one iota what motor or traverse mechanism you use. Just make a sodding pickup and then talk about how good it is. Otherwise you're just a museum curator.

So yeah let us know.....

See what I mean. All negative. Honest and hard working please. I make a living doing guitar electronics. I do paid advertising. I treat it like the business it is.

And it's not a heart shaped cam. Many of you guys could make this machine if you had access to it but you don't. I probably should just push these things of a cliff though. They are just crap. What was Gibson thinking when they used these to make PAF's? Hah!!

But who takes me seriously. Well prominent record producers and guitar players that I have as clients and many, many regular guitar playing enthusiasts.

Spence you worry so much about me it's touching. But your time table for my pickup production is not what drives me. A customer like Heritage Guitar Inc. is what drives me. Today I have been playing the prototype pickup made on the above machines that will be carried in Heritage guitars as a premium upgrade pickup. And it is very, very good. I started giving them sample pickups 2 years ago. I assure you they take me seriously for good reason. Timing is everything in business and life. My advice Spence is for you to spend more time worrying about making your business work because mine is doing just fine. It's been just fine for 14 years. The amount of time you are spending addressing my business is money out of your pocket not mine. Best of success.

[JGundry]

I've got to disagree with you here. You present your case with a very high degree of certitude that the antique machines you're restoring will recreate the perfect PAF wind. Spence continually calls you on some of the underlying details, often related to processes that we can only infer Gibson employed back in the day (tensioning, etc).

As one of the newcomers here pointed out, you claim that it's all about the winder, while for Possum it's metallurgy. WB, of course, says it's all in the wire. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm of a mind that it all matters to some extent, and that how much weight should be assigned to each is really the question.

I'd expect that if you were to throttle back your claims a bit, Spence's replies would be scaled back as well.

Dave,

There is no pleasing Spence. I don't care to try anyway. He can stay bitter as long as it makes him happy. I have had people on this and other forums PM me apologizing for Spence's negative posts and stating they are tired of his rants and wish he would just get over the entire PAF thing. I got tired a long, long time ago.

I am using the same winders and tensioning Gibson used for PAF's. They used felt tensioners, end of story. Sorry but I am certain about the winding methods and machines for PAF's. It's done, over, not debatable. Disagree but that is not going to change any facts.

I don't claim it is all about the winding. Metal and wire are part of it also. In fact I just had a conversation today with a former Gibson employee who was there there in the 50's that told me in no uncertain terms what kind of steel the slugs in PAF's were. I didn't even ask him about it. He just asked me what I was using for slugs and then told me what steel they were made out of. He just volunteered it. He knows the metal and the machine and the wire matter.

But I fully admit machine winding, hand winding, metals, wire are all interesting and potential marketing angles for any maker. But Spence is under the mistaken notion that my knowledge of machine winding PAF's is a personal attack on him and others. It's not. I use what I know to make the best products I can just like everyone else.

[Spence]

I'll be looking for the reviews on Heritage from now on. Their pickups have always been the first thing to upgrade.

BTW, notice how you disagree with everyone else?

[JGundry]

I'll be looking for the reviews on Heritage from now on. Their pickups have always been the first thing to upgrade.

BTW, notice how you disagree with everyone else?

Don't bother. I'm sure you will hate them.

Heritage HRW pickups are well reviewed in a British Guitar magazine. Heritage has used Lollar's, Duncans, Fralin, Holmes. The only ones that get a bad wrap are the Schallers which I think they don't carry anymore. I'll put in a good word for you there.

I will leave agreeing with everyone to you. I hope that works for you. I always liked thinking for myself. Probably why you identify so well with sheep.

Actually the PM's I get all agree that your an ass. True story.

[greenfingers]

I've got to disagree with you here. You present your case with a very high degree of certitude that the antique machines you're restoring will recreate the perfect PAF wind. Spence continually calls you on some of the underlying details, often related to processes that we can only infer Gibson employed back in the day (tensioning, etc).

As one of the newcomers here pointed out, you claim that it's all about the winder, while for Possum it's metallurgy. WB, of course, says it's all in the wire. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm of a mind that it all matters to some extent, and that how much weight should be assigned to each is really the question.

I'd expect that if you were to throttle back your claims a bit, Spence's replies would be scaled back as well.

Well said Dave Keer, I thing the one good thing that will come out of all these opposing views for me is, if i ever start to sell the pickups i make, i will 1st try every permeation possible, 2nd not be held back by folklore, 3rd never claim i know the one and only reason why P.A.F.s sound like they do, all things count, some more than others, and last but not least, make the best sounding pickups i can. Now where did i put that Stew Mac kit

[WBPickups]

I know that I am not the most welcomed person here but I just wanted to say that Gundry that machine you bought there is a cool part of history. Nice score! We may not agree with our ideas but that is very cool!

As for PAF this or that. Just wind them guys and have fun making what you make. So many of us take so much to heart with our passion for this that sometime it becomes a full on war. I am guilty at times for getting sucked up into it as well.

I have talked to Wade, Kevin, Ben, Rod, Wolfe, Bryan on the phone and emailed back and forth with Dave & Spence and all I can tell you is that all of us our passionate at what we do and it's great. I wish you all nothing but the best always and I hope that all of you just realize that your ideas & methods may differ than the others but it doesn't mean that we should trash one another or claim that one is better than the other. We offer different takes on pretty much the same design that has been around for years. That's what makes it fun. Trying to make something that sounds great to you and sharing with the world.

I will be honest that I come here every so often and love reading what you guys write and share. I think this forum is wonderful with so much knowledge at times from different angles. I just hate as much as some of you the crap that goes on behind the scenes and on all these forums.

Wishing you all the best as always.

Will

[JGundry]

I know that I am not the most welcomed person here but I just wanted to say that Gundry that machine you bought there is a cool part of history. Nice score! We may not agree with our ideas but that is very cool!

As for PAF this or that. Just wind them guys and have fun making what you make. So many of us take so much to heart with our passion for this that sometime it becomes a full on war. I am guilty at times for getting sucked up into it as well.

I have talked to Wade, Kevin, Ben, Rod, Wolfe, Bryan on the phone and emailed back and forth with Dave & Spence and all I can tell you is that all of us our passionate at what we do and it's great. I wish you all nothing but the best always and I hope that all of you just realize that your ideas & methods may differ than the others but it doesn't mean that we should trash one another or claim that one is better than the other. We offer different takes on pretty much the same design that has been around for years. That's what makes it fun. Trying to make something that sounds great to you and sharing with the world.

I will be honest that I come here every so often and love reading what you guys write and share. I think this forum is wonderful with so much knowledge at times from different angles. I just hate as much as some of you the crap that goes on behind the scenes and on all these forums.

Wishing you all the best as always.

Will

Good post Will and thank you. I think anybody here would have been thrilled to get a chance to buy this machine. I'm understandably stoked about having it. Especially since I made a choice long ago to go the machine wound route.

Absolutely everyone has a right to be passionate about their methods etc. I just hate it when passion is mistaken for personal attack. And once the personal attacks start it's hard to end it. I'm guilty of it myself. It is a total distraction from some really good information.

[greenfingers]

I will be honest that I come here every so often and love reading what you guys write and share. I think this forum is wonderful with so much knowledge at times from different angles. I just hate as much as some of you the crap that goes on behind the scenes and on all these forums.

Wishing you all the best as always.

Will

Hi Will, if your on the forum i think you should share your views and findings on things a bit more, "its good to talk". There may not be as much hugging and kissing on this forum compared to MLP, but you look like a big boy who can take it on the chin. yall come back now. by the way is there a gift at the end of your new clips on youtube for who ever gets it right ? maybe the P.A.F. I am going too stick my neck out and say the first is the paf and the second one of yours. Did i get it?

[Sam Lee Guy]

Just so you know all of my winders all the ultimate. My Leesona 102, my vintage, Gibson made, one of a kind PAF winder and my ingenious computer controlled winder. I may get banned here for my modesty if I don't watch out.

Pics two of my ultimate winding machines. By the way these are the machines that actually wound PAF's.

Since you claim your Leesona is a machine that actually wound PAF's, I just said I didn't know you had got it from Gibson too, or is it a machine that actually wound PAF's as in "I have a guitar actually played by Hendrix, yes a real Fender Stratocaster, almost the same as Hendrix's"

[Spence]

Actually the PM's I get all agree that your an ass. True story.

Print them here if you've got the balls.

[WBPickups]

Hi Will, if your on the forum i think you should share your views and findings on things a bit more, "its good to talk". There may not be as much hugging and kissing on this forum compared MLP, but you look like a big boy who can take it on the chin. yall come back now.

I take it on the chin, the ass and just about every other body part as well on a day to day, month to month and now year to year basis. It's been like this since I came onto the world wide web and it's part of the game. On the MLP I have a lot of customers that are quite vocal on their happiness on what I have built them. It's just were I hang out at as well. I don't go onto every forum out there. I will say that there is quite a few reputable people there that uses the ghost of screen names that are good people. I'll just leave it at that since so many have thoughts on me and the MLP.

My take on all this is quite simple. The Tonal frequencies are the most important to me on everything I build. Twist the wire one way. Test it. Try this mag out with it. Test it. If I use this part what will it do? Test it. It's all on what your trying to achieve to yourself as a builder of these toys. There's really is no wrong or right just what your ears tell you at the end of the day. I don't want to get into any debates here on how I make my pickups or what I use because the end of the day it's just a great microphone showcasing the players hands and talent with the style of music that they make. That's all.

This forum is a wonderful wealth of knowledge but at the same time I always wonder why some of you don't keep your cards closer to your chest.

Like I said before, I wish everyone nothing but the best but the Electrician fixing some power issues here at the shop just came at me with a $1200 bill and I am about to freak the hell out on his ass.

[WBPickups]

. by the way is there a gift at the end of your new clips on youtube for who ever gets it right ? maybe the P.A.F. I am going too stick my neck out and say the first is the paf and the second one of yours. Did i get it?

I quoted you before you edited... LOL! Stay tuned and no gifts for guessing but I wish I win that Lottery tonight so that I can do this for free and just hand out my pickups to whom ever wants them. The money part is the dirty part to all this. It's sucks to have to mix business with pleasure. Well unless we are talking about woman but I won't touch on that subject.

Blessings.

[salvarsan]

I know that I am not the most welcomed person here but I just wanted to say that Gundry that machine you bought there is a cool part of history. Nice score! We may not agree with our ideas but that is very cool!

Kindly stop attempting to inject courtesy, reason, and good will into this pissing match.

Thank you.

the Immoderator's sock puppet,
-drh

[JGundry]

Since you claim your Leesona is a machine that actually wound PAF's, I just said I didn't know you had got it from Gibson too, or is it a machine that actually wound PAF's as in "I have a guitar actually played by Hendrix, yes a real Fender Stratocaster, almost the same as Hendrix's"

Sam you still don't get it. The machine on the top is the exactry same model of machine that round PAF's. Seymour has the Leesona 102's from Gibson but mine same, same mista.

The bottom machine was used to rind PAF's also. It one a kind macheen. Come from old Gibson plant last week. Place now called Heritage Guitaaa but building same, same as old Gibson plant. Old Gibson stuff deaah. You likey.

Oh I hope to God he understands that.