Good PAF tone

[jrfrond]

Bypassing all of the technicalities, the best PAF clones I've ever played are Lollar's and Duncan's Antiquity.

[David Schwab]

OK, so now you guys got me totally confused. Was the Beano amp an 18 watter or something else? Huh?

The article in Premier Guitar on the reissue seems to be saying the original Model 1962 was 45 Watts and used KT66 tubes.

Just like the original, it was rated at 45 watts and came with two Celestion speakers.

Although the very first combos incorporated the smaller 5881 vacuum tube, Marshall designed the Model 1962 for the more prevalent but enormous Coke bottle-shaped KT66 vacuum tube.

Jim Marshall wanted his new range of combos to be versatile; as a result, he designed the Model 1962 with two 12" loudspeakers and used the JTM45 bass chassis (Model 1986) electronics. The Model 1962 was described in the Marshall catalogue as a "Bass/Lead" unit, making it an extremely versatile amplifier that could be used by guitarists and bass players alike.

Interesting article... they also say Clapton's amp might have been unique.

[Possum]

PAF clones...

You ought to try some others:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij2F8wXH8nc

I hear Fat Tone are using butyrate bobbins, I wonder how good their buckers are, anyone try them out yet?
I got a Duncan Seth Lover to take apart, pretty good job there, I think the Burst bucker I got seem to hit more authentic tones but on the dark side, kinda surprised me since alot of what they did inside is just plain wrong :-)

[dai h.]

I'm gonna have to say for the record ...I don't know... I thought I knew, now I'm not so sure.

so if Marshall, etc. is wrong then PROVE IT. Show the evidence to back up your assertion. This has to be something more than "me and my friends think so...". If you can prove it, then maybe you could be right. So, far I see nothing besides a similar appearance and some pictures of 18-watt chassis.

[Possum]

...

Can you guys email Marshall directly and ask them? I wonder if they'd actually know, probably just a bunch of young kids working there now...

[greenfingers]

Wow it seems like that story is a combination of two stories, back when Gibson put out it's (90's) Page model they said the push/pull pots were to simulate the under-the-pickguard switches that #2 had, so now this article has it that #2 had both pickguard switches AND push/pull pots!

It's more like one story been split into two i think than the other way round.

If this thread had started a few weeks back i could have got all the info from the Jim himself, I met him at the LIMS in London, but then i bet someone would say that his mind ain't what it used to be . All i can tell you is that early Marshalls were inconsistent, when Garry Winterflood worked with Dennis Cornell of "Cornell" amps fame, Garry had a bunch of the same vintage marshall amps for Dennis to look at for inspiration and found they all had a little something different. And if you know anything about Dennis Cornell he would be able to spot if the changes were done after they left marshall. so they left marshall that way.

[greenfingers]

WHAT DO YOU THINK........ hope this helps?

[Dave Kerr]

so if Marshall, etc. is wrong then PROVE IT. Show the evidence to back up your assertion. This has to be something more than "me and my friends think so...". If you can prove it, then maybe you could be right. So, far I see nothing besides a similar appearance and some pictures of 18-watt chassis.

What assertion? You say this after he posts I don't know... I thought I knew, now I'm not so sure. You want him to prove that he's unsure?

[RedHouse]

so if Marshall, etc. is wrong then PROVE IT. Show the evidence to back up your assertion. This has to be something more than "me and my friends think so...". If you can prove it, then maybe you could be right. So, far I see nothing besides a similar appearance and some pictures of 18-watt chassis.

Dai, I haven't said Jim Marshall is wrong etc, or the references you and David have made are wrong, what I have tried to say, and show is that the 18 is a Bluesbreaker.

It's becomming rapidly apparent that there are two types of Bluesbreaker, and in any case you are using the term to describe one particular amp, fair enough I suppose.

You call one particular combo amp a Bluesbreaker, many others have always called the combo's as a group of amps Bluesbreakers, much the same way as I would call a general type of Marshall a "Plexi" which doesn't refer to one particular amp but a particular series of amps, perhaps that is correct, perhaps not.

Can you post any chassis pic's of an original JTM45 Bluesbreaker? (or links) I would indeed love to see 'em, as I too have read that they were supposed to be JTM45's originally but all the pic's I can find of original bluesbreakers are of the EL84 type, too strange how the JTM45 Bluesbreaker is aparently MIA for pictures on the internet.

[RedHouse]

WHAT DO YOU THINK........ hope this helps?

I think it's like the other documentation which say's it has KT66's power tubes.

Thank's for posting it, and do you have any chassis pic's of an original JTM45 Bluesbreaker with KT66's?.

I wonder what model number the EL84 version goes by? was it also a 1962 but with different power tubes, or was it a different model number I wonder?.

[dai h.]

well, show how he came to that idea since he seemed to be quite adamant before. How that was arrived at since there are other sources such as Doyle, Marshall themselves, the Pittman book, etc. concluding differently (other sources which were brought up and cited but casually dismissed). How exactly was the different conclusion disproved? Not to mention the idea that someone would actually confuse an EL84 with a KT66 or that I was somehow trying to imply the Van Halen 1 album was an example of the use of a "Bluesbreaker" which at the least is a ridiculous misrepresentation of what I stated.

uhhh, aren't those 18-watters? There is a whole chapter on it in Doyle's History of Marshall book and according to him the Bassman one is the Bluesbreakers amp (named after the John Mayall album) not the 18-watter. You have me very confused, lol...

Ok whatever, the pic is of an original, I don't know about the Doyle book.

WHAT DO YOU THINK........ hope this helps?

the cosmetics are different on the amp shown on the back cover of the Bluesbreakers album:

download to open up a pic of the back cover of the album showing amp:

http://www.allcdcovers.com/show/671/...retail_cd/back


anyway, found a bit more that was interesting:

source:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.g...44ef177585bef0

so I'm looking at the page now, and the 2x12 18-watt combo on top of the "Bluesbreaker" (which has the same cosmetics on the Beano album amp but different to the 1962 shown in the above scan without the sort of "lip" overhanging the front) is a bit narrower side to side but the spacing of the logo on the vinyl of the top 18-watter looks closer to the amp shown on the back cover of the album. Scanned the page and tried to compare side to side, and it looks like the History of Marshall "Bluesbreaker" matches the width of the album pic (Clapton amp is at a slight angle, Hist.ofM. amp is straight on), but it's hard to say for certain. If there was a good eyewitness account saying they were "small narrow bottles", or "a big bottle", etc. or a picture from the session showing a clear picture of the control panel or back--that would be conclusive methinks.

[greenfingers]

this is a 1962 JTM 45 model combo form 1966 AKA "Bluesbreaker" wich looks like it has KT66's in.

[greenfingers]

the cosmetics are different on the amp shown on the back cover of the Bluesbreakers album:

if you read the text it states that "The second version evolved into a noticeably thinner cabinet, these appeared in mid 1965" Eric joind with the Bluesbreakers around april of the same year wich would fit the time frame. if he used one that is?

The second version is IDENTICAL to the one you see in the sleevenotes of the Beano album. This is possibly where the mix-up between the 1962 JTM 45 "bluesbreaker" model and the 1958 18 watt amp happens since they look almost the same from the front.

So to my mind Eric used the second series of the 1962 combo aka "Bluesbreaker"............. Now all that said, there is one school of thought and just to complicate things a bit more that it may have beem possible that Eric may have used the 1961 combo 4x10" instead of the 1962 2x12"

but let's not go there.

[dai h.]

Dai, I haven't said Jim Marshall is wrong etc, or the references you and David have made are wrong, what I have tried to say, and show is that the 18 is a Bluesbreaker.

It's becomming rapidly apparent that there are two types of Bluesbreaker, and in any case you are using the term to describe one particular amp, fair enough I suppose.

You call one particular combo amp a Bluesbreaker, many others have always called the combo's as a group of amps Bluesbreakers, much the same way as I would call a general type of Marshall a "Plexi" which doesn't refer to one particular amp but a particular series of amps, perhaps that is correct, perhaps not.

what I'm saying is the bassman-type combo amp is the one I've understood to be a "Bluesbreaker", then I cited some sources. How exactly have you "shown" the 18-watter is a "Bluesbreaker"??? You came to think of it yourself that it was a "Bluesbreaker" because you thought it was used on the Bluesbreakers album? Besides for the fact that the different amps do look quite similar (but lots of other Marshalls do as well) where is the evidence? If the moniker is after the amp used on the album there can only be one "Bluesbreaker" (unless of course Clapton used both at the same time--but that sounds unlikely). I've been perfectly willing to accept that you may have been right from the very beginning but I have seeing nothing from you that convinces me.

Can you post any chassis pic's of an original JTM45 Bluesbreaker? (or links) I would indeed love to see 'em, as I too have read that they were supposed to be JTM45's originally but all the pic's I can find of original bluesbreakers are of the EL84 type, too strange how the JTM45 Bluesbreaker is aparently MIA for pictures on the internet.

I find it a little extraordinary that you've never even seen one, can't find one, nor have a chassis pic or two while making your argument and I'm feeling at times I'm doing your research for you, but for the sake of the discussion here is one you can look at.

pic of original JTM45/Bluesbreaker:

http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/gr...os/browse/c32a

[David Schwab]

Anyone remember Park amps?