Humbuckers always Weak and Thin

[littlewyan]

I've just recently got back into pickup winding again, never had much success before and unfortunately I'm not now. I'm winding humbuckers, my standard is a Gibson Super 57 (Alnico 2, 5750winds, 8.8K) and every humbucker I wind sounds thin and weak in comparison. I've tried 5400 winds, 5600 winds, 40TPL, 60TPL, all with an alnico 2 long magnet but they all just sound weak. I'm at loss. When I compare to my Super 57 pickup the difference is night and day, so much more power and clarity. I'm not expecting to be the same of course, but my pickups are miles away. Any suggestions?

I'm using as much tension as I feel I can without snapping the wire. My pickups always read a bit low in my opinion, 5400 winds comes out at 8K and 5600 winds comes out at 8.3K. After winding I can push the wire in a little bit and I can stick my nail into the coil and move it about slightly, is that normal?
I've checked I'm wiring up correctly, in series and in phase. Inductance is fine, measured 5.124H 1Khz, 5.562H 100Hz for my last 5600 wind.

[Helmholtz]

Your inductance values look fine. The rest (DCR, TPL, winding tension) is rather insignificant.for overall sound and volume.
Are you sure the A2 magnets are fully charged?
What are you using for srews, slugs and keeper?

Not sure what is a Gibson Super 57. Do you mean Classic 57 instead?

[big_teee]

Check the magnets like suggested, and try again.
I would also question your wiring.
The turns sound fine for a bridge pickup, but too hot IMO for a neck pickup.
Make sure you are wiring in series.
In and out on the starts, and tie together the finish leads.
T

https://music-electronics-forum.com/...etch?id=979769

[littlewyan]

No it’s the Super 57, not very well known but essentially a super hot 57 Classic. 5750 turns, Alnico 2 long magnet.

The magnets come pre charged from Axesrus. Slugs and screws are 1018 I think, baseplate nickel and keeper is just down as steel.

I’ve checked the wiring and I’m wiring in series same as that Dimarzio diagram.

[Helmholtz]

For a test reverse the wires of one coil.

[John_H]

Humbucker wiring requires Hooking either the 'start' or 'finish' ends of the coils together. If you connect the 'finish' of one coil to the 'start' of the other, you'll have the symptoms you described.

[Helmholtz]

Wrong phase of one of the coils results in weak output, no hum-bucking and about 20% lowered PU inductance.

[littlewyan]

So I wind both coils the same way and attach end leads together. Wondering if the magnets I’m buying are fully charged, they are supposed to be pre charged and I’ve bought a few of them from the same place.

Speaking to someone on Facebook they say it should still sound close enough to my reference pickup, the Super 57.

[big_teee]

You need to give us some pictures, and show more of your process.
Do you put your start lead out the bottom, or both start and finish out the top.
Does this pickup have a cover on it?
The metal in covers, the thickness, the amount of chrome, or nickel effect tone.
Your at the point you need to do lots of experimenting.
It can be a hard task to make a pickup and duplicate something.
On bar magnets it can be challenging to get the edges the same strength as the middles.
Please give us more to go on?
T

[copperheadroads]

So I wind both coils the same way and attach end leads together. Wondering if the magnets I’m buying are fully charged, they are supposed to be pre charged and I’ve bought a few of them from the same place.

Speaking to someone on Facebook they say it should still sound close enough to my reference pickup, the Super 57.

Are you doing 4 conductor wire or VIntage braided , Wind both coils the same way & connect the finish ends of both coils together & use the Start of the south coil to ground & the start of the north coil will be the hot .

[littlewyan]

Sorry for the late response, been on holiday!
So I've revisited this, the pickup is wired correctly and I think my issue is simply down to the winding. The current pickup just sounds very compressed, thin but also dark? I tried to wind at 60TPL and with lots of tension, but I'll admit my winding isn't particularly exact. So I'm wondering if I just try again at 60TPL, but try to wind neater and to back off the tension a bit. It's 5600 winds right now and compared to my Super 57 which is 5750 winds the difference in tone and output is quite noticeable. Even if I roll down my tone control, it doesn't make my pickup sound better, it's not a brightness thing. I've also noticed how others tend to fill bobbins with less winds than what I'm doing, which again makes me wonder about my tension.

[littlewyan]

Oh and I am using vintage braided wire. Winding coils same way, finish leads connected together.

[mozz]

Did you try swapping the wires as was said? Probably out of phase as was said again. If you have it correct now, swapping phase would make it even weaker. Until you do that and prove it's correct we can't help you much more.

[littlewyan]

I haven’t yet, but I have gotten the phase wrong before and if I remember rightly it just sounds like a single coil when that happens. That’s not what I’m hearing now, I’m hearing a dark thin compressed sound.

[littlewyan]

Well, I got to the bottom of it. It was how I was winding, I was using too much tension. So on my latest wind I used very loose tension, filled the bobbin with just 5500 turns and it sounds so much better. It's now actually comparable with my Gibson Super 57! It's now a tad too bright, but one of the winds was a bit messy and I might up the tension a tiny bit. I wind without guides and so far it's been fine as I've been winding cream bobbins, however I decided to do a Zebra coil and winding the black bobbin was horrendous. I just couldn't see the edges at all. So moving forward, add wire guides and don't use quite so much tension. Thanks for your help all!